HPL Euro vs SP. Why use inferior add pack?

[Dude-Man]

Ok, first off this is not about whether HPL makes good fluids. I use them exclusively in my drivetrain and trans and have gone through a case of no VII in the past as well. I like their stuff.

What I'm wondering is if a timing chain operated gas engine is not LSPI prone, doesn't have fuel dilution issues, doesn't consume oil, no warranty concerns, and don't care about CAFE, why would one use an SP rated oil (Premium Plus PCMO 5W-30) vs a 504/229.51, etc rated oil (Euro PCMO 5W-30) with an arguably better additive pack? Base oil chemistries and VII's should be similar with presumably only the additives being different. So why not use the 'better' Euro for every application that doesn't have specific needs?

 

[OVERKILL]

Ok, first off this is not about whether HPL makes good fluids. I use them exclusively in my drivetrain and trans and have gone through a case of no VII in the past as well. I like their stuff.

What I'm wondering is if a timing chain operated gas engine is not LSPI prone, doesn't have fuel dilution issues, doesn't consume oil, no warranty concerns, and don't care about CAFE, why would one use an SP rated oil (Premium Plus PCMO 5W-30) vs a 504/229.51, etc rated oil (Euro PCMO 5W-30) with an arguably better additive pack? Base oil compositions should be similar with presumably only the additives being different. So why not use the 'better' Euro for every application that doesn't have specific needs?

That's why the "overkill" Euro 0W-20 exists. LL-01, A3/B4, 229.5, A40...etc full-SAPS additive package in a 0W-20. Dave at @High Performance Lubricants was kind enough to blend it up for me and I've been using it exclusively in our RAM 1500 since.

 

[Glenda W.]

I personally use Euro oil in several Asian vehicles because I feel it’s better oil. In my case Mobil 1 ESP 0w30. I like the approvals and more robust add pack. I would absolutely do the same with HPL.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Ok, first off this is not about whether HPL makes good fluids. I use them exclusively in my drivetrain and trans and have gone through a case of no VII in the past as well. I like their stuff.

What I'm wondering is if a timing chain operated gas engine is not LSPI prone, doesn't have fuel dilution issues, doesn't consume oil, no warranty concerns, and don't care about CAFE, why would one use an SP rated oil (Premium Plus PCMO 5W-30) vs a 504/229.51, etc rated oil (Euro PCMO 5W-30) with an arguably better additive pack? Base oil chemistries and VII's should be similar with presumably only the additives being different. So why not use the 'better' Euro for every application that doesn't have specific needs?

You make it sound like we all drive the same vehicles with the same engines.
I'll bet you don't own a Hyunkia Theta 2.
Wait - you haven't even mentioned what you drive - how many miles accumulated - what oil you use and how long your OCIs are.
Lastly, there isn't a need for specific Euro oils, if the vehicle's engine isn't suffering any consequences of aging. Still running like new and you are complaining about what an owner is using?..... I don't get it.

So lets start from the beginning..... shall we?

 

[JavierH19]

Simply because most don't know that they can and even if were told they're too scared to use anything different anyway and will only use something like motorcraft syn blend 5w-20 in their 2014 5.0 ford even though they're paying more for something worse compared to qs euro 5w-40 or castrol euro 5w-30/40 that cost less per jug.

 

[Plumb Bob]

With the "unconventional" chemistries used by HPL, I'm not sure the difference between their "API" versions and the "Euro" ones are as remarkable as the ones between formally approved, certified oils.

 

[Dude-Man]

@Triple Because I don’t want my specific applications to cloud anyone’s recommendations. All we need to assume is both oils are quality offerings from the same company in the same 5W-30 weight (HPL Euro PCMO and HPL Premium Plus PCMO). Nothing about the engines I’m thinking of require anything special as noted above, except that they are driven hard at higher rpm. I see no downsides to running a euro add pack vs an SP with the possible exception of higher HTHS. So at similar cost, why run an SP oil in an engine that is not LSPI prone, doesn't have fuel dilution issues, and doesn't consume oil?

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Ok, first off this is not about whether HPL makes good fluids. I use them exclusively in my drivetrain and trans and have gone through a case of no VII in the past as well. I like their stuff.

What I'm wondering is if a timing chain operated gas engine is not LSPI prone, doesn't have fuel dilution issues, doesn't consume oil, no warranty concerns, and don't care about CAFE, why would one use an SP rated oil (Premium Plus PCMO 5W-30) vs a 504/229.51, etc rated oil (Euro PCMO 5W-30) with an arguably better additive pack? Base oil chemistries and VII's should be similar with presumably only the additives being different. So why not use the 'better' Euro for every application that doesn't have specific needs?

What makes you think it's inferior? For example M1 Euro oils meet the performance requirements of API SP.

 

[SR5]

I mostly buy oils that are both API SN or SP and also ACEA A3/B4 or C3. It’s common to have both specs in Australia.

It’s easier with 40 grades and above, as they have less restrictions on API chemical limits than 30 grades or below.

That’s why Castrol Edge 0/5W40 and 5W30 A3/B4 can have very similar add packs. Yet the xW40 is SN or SP, while the 5W30 is “only” SL.

For the reasons you say, I like me a bit of Edge 5W30 A3/B4 with MB 229.5 and BMW LL-01. Wish I could get HPL over here.

 

[SR5]

Because I don’t want my specific applications to cloud anyone’s recommendations.

Good point, that happens a lot. As soon as you mention the car, people start telling you what they would run in that car, and not answer the actual question you are asking.

Sometimes you want the question to be about the oil in general and not the application in particular.

 

[ZZman]

Most people don't care about/obsess over oils. Cost/Price is king.
Plus any good approved oil will work well in vehicles kept at reasonable oci's.

 

[Patrick0525]

@Triple Because I don’t want my specific applications to cloud anyone’s recommendations. All we need to assume is both oils are quality offerings from the same company in the same 5W-30 weight (HPL Euro PCMO and HPL Premium Plus PCMO). Nothing about the engines I’m thinking of require anything special as noted above, except that they are driven hard at higher rpm. I see no downsides to running a euro add pack vs an SP with the possible exception of higher HTHS. So at similar cost, why run an SP oil in an engine that is not LSPI prone, doesn't have fuel dilution issues, and doesn't consume oil?i

HPL VII Euro 5w-30 in my Toyota 2GR-FE that is NA, port injected, no fuel dilution and no oil consumption.

@Triple Because I don’t want my specific applications to cloud anyone’s recommendations. All we need to assume is both oils are quality offerings from the same company in the same 5W-30 weight (HPL Euro PCMO and HPL Premium Plus PCMO). Nothing about the engines I’m thinking of require anything special as noted above, except that they are driven hard at higher rpm. I see no downsides to running a euro add pack vs an SP with the possible exception of higher HTHS. So at similar cost, why run an SP oil in an engine that is not LSPI prone, doesn't have fuel dilution issues, and doesn't consume oil?

I choose to run HPL (has VII) Euro PCMO 5w-30 in my Toyota 2GR-FE V6 that is NA, port injected that has no fuel dilution or oil consumption. It is API SN rated. Dave from HPL emailed me the same criteria to use the stouter Euro vs API SP if u want more certified additives for a 10K oil change. I am not saying HPL 5w-30 is incapable doing of a 10k OCI but the HPL Euro version
has been certified and tested.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

In regards to us GDI /TGDI owners.....
Less carbonation, less engine noise and timing chain concerns keeps me with SP oils. If I didn't own the overly sensitive Hyunkia four cylinder Theta 2 products, my choices would lead me to thinner oils and Dexos 1 / Gen 3 products.

My experiences with quality, boutique 0w20/30 Euro oils in my Hyunkias produced increased engine noise in the Kia MPI. Had I not added Rislone Treatmentto the 0w30 Euro oil in my Hyundai - in order to keep quiet that 2.4 GDI engine, I would have drained that oil by now also. The Kia Euro oil got changed prematurely and almost the Hyundai engine oil also...... until the Rislone Rescue.

Never again and I currently avoid Euros as a result. Do you blame me?
But I may try the Euros again someday, in 5w / 10w applications.

 

[Vorlauf]

In regards to us GDI /TGDI owners.....
Less carbonation, less engine noise and timing chain concerns keeps me with SP oils.

I would think from what I gathered is that Euro specs do a better job at this, & at operating temperature a winter rating is irrelevant in regards to engine noise. I could be wrong though.

 

[hemioiler]

The entry API from HPL is $70/6qt for the basic PCMO.
The entry Euro from HPL is $96/6qt

By the time that is converted to CAD, I pay $85 for shipping, and another 50+ for border fees, saving $20 on the oil itself is nice (I use 7 qts).

Both oils are amazing, are they not? What exactly would the Euro do for me that the PCMO doesn't in my 5.7 hemi? The hemi is a 20 year old engine and doesn't need anything special in terms of ad packs. I change out my oil every 7000 miles.

I happen to like the high Moly formula found in all their oils except for the Euro oil which uses Boron instead.

So for me it's a classic case of diminishing returns and I think the entry PCMO is already an exceptional oil.

 

[Vorlauf]

The entry API from HPL is $70/6qt for the basic PCMO.
The entry Euro from HPL is $96/6qt

By the time that is converted to CAD, I pay $85 for shipping, and another 50+ for border fees, saving $20 on the oil itself is nice (I use 7 qts).

Both oils are amazing, are they not? What exactly would the Euro do for me that the PCMO doesn't in my 5.7 hemi? The hemi is a 20 year old engine and doesn't need anything special in terms of ad packs. I change out my oil every 7000 miles.

I happen to like the high Moly formula found in all their oils except for the Euro oil which uses Boron instead.

So for me it's a classic case of diminishing returns and I think the entry PCMO is already an exceptional oil.

I'm using their standard PCMO, & think it's all that's needed for my vehicles. That said, I may try a more robust offering of theirs if I plan on taking an OCI beyond 10k.

 

[cammyfive79]

In regards to us GDI /TGDI owners.....
Less carbonation, less engine noise and timing chain concerns keeps me with SP oils. If I didn't own the overly sensitive Hyunkia four cylinder Theta 2 products, my choices would lead me to thinner oils and Dexos 1 / Gen 3 products.

My experiences with quality, boutique 0w20/30 Euro oils in my Hyunkias produced increased engine noise in the Kia MPI. Had I not added Rislone Treatmentto the 0w30 Euro oil in my Hyundai - in order to keep quiet that 2.4 GDI engine, I would have drained that oil by now also. The Kia Euro oil got changed prematurely and almost the Hyundai engine oil also...... until the Rislone Rescue.

Never again and I currently avoid Euros as a result. Do you blame me?
But I may try the Euros again someday, in 5w / 10w applications.

Are you saying a boutique oil like, say, HPL or Amsoil made your engine nosier than any run of the mill SP labeled oil? First I have heard of that.

 

[SimpleSyrup]

The entry API from HPL is $70/6qt for the basic PCMO.
The entry Euro from HPL is $96/6qt

By the time that is converted to CAD, I pay $85 for shipping, and another 50+ for border fees, saving $20 on the oil itself is nice (I use 7 qts).

Both oils are amazing, are they not? What exactly would the Euro do for me that the PCMO doesn't in my 5.7 hemi? The hemi is a 20 year old engine and doesn't need anything special in terms of ad packs. I change out my oil every 7000 miles.

I happen to like the high Moly formula found in all their oils except for the Euro oil which uses Boron instead.

So for me it's a classic case of diminishing returns and I think the entry PCMO is already an exceptional oil.

Have you priced one of the Ravenol "vollsynthetisches" oils? Fully PAO/Ester, many options to slice and dice exactly what you want.

 

[hemioiler]

Have you priced one of the Ravenol "vollsynthetisches" oils? Fully PAO/Ester, many options to slice and dice exactly what you want.

No I haven't. IMHO, HPL is "best in class" oil and I'm not worried about the price, the amount it costs me to run HPL oil over something else is probably what I spend on gas in 2 or 3 days. Everything in perspective!