Why is rotella hated by some?
- Thread starter Redhawk454
- Start date
Yeah that’s true, anyone would agree with that statement. But that is also far removed from what I spoke about in my post.
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I only hate my own missed opportunities - certain stocks - waterfront properties etc … Rotella is not on the list good, bad, indifferent 
So find your own echo chamber if you arent open to critical thinking.
How does Shell's spending on marketing compare to the other major brands?
Do we know how much internal spending Chevron does to keep key OEM accounts? Foxtrot08 says that Chevron has the most control in the OEM supply. If they spend a lot on internal marketing and business relations with their key accounts and make them satisfied, it's going to be incredibly hard for another company to pry them away.
So the next best thing for these companies to do is go after the aftermarket/end users which are likely more impressionable, thus the larger external/public marketing presence.
Exactly. You show up right on cue, almost always, and further my argument. My point is that many are not open to critical thinking. That’s why the semi religious reliance on data.
No problem.
This reminds me of one of my late friend's sayings.
"Baseless statements are just opinions, and baseless opinions are conspiracy theories."
Substantial discourse is essential to progress. Unsubstantiated arguments are no better than the anecdotes of a layman on his 3rd ecodiesel in 85k miles, from the same bearing failure, because he insists T6 is better than the OEM recommended oil. Funny how people using the recommended oil (or better) aren't having such failures.
"Baseless statements are just opinions, and baseless opinions are conspiracy theories."
Substantial discourse is essential to progress. Unsubstantiated arguments are no better than the anecdotes of a layman on his 3rd ecodiesel in 85k miles, from the same bearing failure, because he insists T6 is better than the OEM recommended oil. Funny how people using the recommended oil (or better) aren't having such failures.
I am sorry to hear that your late friend said and believed this. Hopefully you don’t.
To answer your question, sort of. I’ve always been told Chevron gives PACCAR all their oem fill oil. Which equates to around 3 million gallons a year, again, what I’ve been told. So 3m times approximately ~$6 / gallon. That’s $18m dollars. That way every frame has a sticker that says “factory filled with delo” on it. (That I promptly peel off on my new trucks.)
Rotella in 2019 spent 52 million on advertising, approximately.
To the others - I have thick skin. I’m a child of the internet age. Everyone is allowed to have opinions here. Whether I agree with them or not, it’s their right and I won’t stifle them. I say a lot of things that are “opinions” through experience. That I can’t really link articles, or anything. But has come true through other indirect sources. (Look at the Rotella foaming threads.) But, still not a “direct” source of data.
If someone doesn’t want to believe me, I get it. There is a lot of opinions, a lot of data, a lot of experiences out there. And There’s a lot of people in this world that dislike me simply because I’m me. There’s others there that won’t believe me for whatever reason. They’re allowed to do that. I’m okay with it. If I make everyone happy, then chances are I’m doing something wrong.
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Yeah without solid evidence it’s hust your opinion.
I used T6 and T4 previously in older BMW sixes, 350 tbi, and still use in motorcycles. T6 5w40 shears too soon, but 15w40 has been great overall for the limited miles (less than 15k across a couple of bikes) that I have had opportunity to use. I did notice foam in sight glasses before, but had seen that regardless of oil types in earlier pre Rotella times. I have looked for Alison TES439 foaming specs but can’t find. Does anyone have a link?
I happen to like T6MV 5W-30, but it’s a pain to get. T5 10W-30 is my small engine swill of choice.
Dang brotella gives the internals some neat colors
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Ok ok, we've all seen bearings with wear. It is quite hard to know why without any context. So I was using HPL/Amsoil.....and my oil pump shaft broke then these bearins came out of the engine....must have been the oil.... Oh wait, you love HPL or Amsoil or Brotella or Penzoil or.... and those bearings were work before your favorite oil was used.
Or better yet, that oil caused the oil pump shaft (or whatever) to fail and trashed your crank and cam.
The reliance on data has merit, but strictly looking at UOA data doesn't tell the whole story, just like this picture of worn bearings doesn't.
Do those bearings have 1,000,000 miles on them? If so, I'd say that was a good engine design, a good oil, with sufficient oil flow and pressure.
However anyone who knows the ecodiesel knows the bearings are scary narrow but of good diameter. This is a poor choice which was made (I believe) to reduce overall engine length. And any V engine lacks main bearings relitive to cylinder count further exasperating the narrow bearing issue.
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Rotella T6 is not recommended for the 3.0 EcoDiesel due to issues with turbo coking. It's a general caution against using heavy-duty diesel oil in a light-duty diesel engine.
Initially, the EcoDiesel was filled with Shell ECT C3 5W-30 (PP Euro L 5W-30) straight from the factory. However, installing an engine designed in the pre-DPF era for GM sedans intended for the European market into a full-size pickup truck led to several problems. For instance, under heavy loads, the first generation EcoDiesel experienced crankshaft flexing. Moreover, the EGR system was clogging the intake with soot, while the DPF was creating excessive backpressure.
FCA (Fiat Chrysler Automobiles) was quick to address these issues, with motor oil being the apparent low-hanging fruit. Unfortunately, Rotella T6 proved ineffective within the engine’s tiny, overheating turbocharger. It also failed to manage the substantial soot levels, which polished the bearings to the color visible in the pictures posted by @RDY4WAR. Ultimately, FCA settled on recommending a full-SAPS European motor oil with strict OEM approvals, thereby creating their somewhat redundant MS specification - 12991. This specification includes oils such as QS/PP Euro 5W-40, Castrol EDGE 5W-40 (SP), and similar products. Indeed, FCA’s situation with the EcoDiesel was desperate, leading to the recommendation of a full-SAPS Euro oil for diesel engines equipped with DPF and SCR systems.
Mobil, on their part, has provided guidelines on how to use their full SAPS 5W-40 (Mobil 1 FS 5W-40):
FCA is presumably hoping that by the time the oil starts contaminating the aftertreatment system, the vehicle will have surpassed its warranty period.
Moreover, viewing a 3.0 EcoDiesel without its engine cover reveals a rather chaotic scene, a testament to its initial design in the early 2000s by VM Motori and the subsequent passing of the project between various engineering teams.
If Stellantis hadn’t already terminated 400 engineers in the US, with plans to lay off another 3200 soon with the intention of relocating those jobs to India and Mexico, perhaps we could seek further insights into the EcoDiesel’s development. Nevertheless, it seems the EcoDiesel will be revisited by a new "elite team" based in Mumbai.
We've managed to run a D60 for 1.5 million miles using Rotella T4 before switching to Delvac 1 Extreme. While Rotella may not be the pinnacle of engine oils, many criticisms leveled against it may be unwarranted.
Initially, the EcoDiesel was filled with Shell ECT C3 5W-30 (PP Euro L 5W-30) straight from the factory. However, installing an engine designed in the pre-DPF era for GM sedans intended for the European market into a full-size pickup truck led to several problems. For instance, under heavy loads, the first generation EcoDiesel experienced crankshaft flexing. Moreover, the EGR system was clogging the intake with soot, while the DPF was creating excessive backpressure.
FCA (Fiat Chrysler Automobiles) was quick to address these issues, with motor oil being the apparent low-hanging fruit. Unfortunately, Rotella T6 proved ineffective within the engine’s tiny, overheating turbocharger. It also failed to manage the substantial soot levels, which polished the bearings to the color visible in the pictures posted by @RDY4WAR. Ultimately, FCA settled on recommending a full-SAPS European motor oil with strict OEM approvals, thereby creating their somewhat redundant MS specification - 12991. This specification includes oils such as QS/PP Euro 5W-40, Castrol EDGE 5W-40 (SP), and similar products. Indeed, FCA’s situation with the EcoDiesel was desperate, leading to the recommendation of a full-SAPS Euro oil for diesel engines equipped with DPF and SCR systems.
Mobil, on their part, has provided guidelines on how to use their full SAPS 5W-40 (Mobil 1 FS 5W-40):
FCA is presumably hoping that by the time the oil starts contaminating the aftertreatment system, the vehicle will have surpassed its warranty period.
Moreover, viewing a 3.0 EcoDiesel without its engine cover reveals a rather chaotic scene, a testament to its initial design in the early 2000s by VM Motori and the subsequent passing of the project between various engineering teams.
If Stellantis hadn’t already terminated 400 engineers in the US, with plans to lay off another 3200 soon with the intention of relocating those jobs to India and Mexico, perhaps we could seek further insights into the EcoDiesel’s development. Nevertheless, it seems the EcoDiesel will be revisited by a new "elite team" based in Mumbai.
We've managed to run a D60 for 1.5 million miles using Rotella T4 before switching to Delvac 1 Extreme. While Rotella may not be the pinnacle of engine oils, many criticisms leveled against it may be unwarranted.
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Sigh. 
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