Why does redline have so much calcium?

Pennzoil motor oil
Status
Not open for further replies.
2000Trooper

2000Trooper

Joined
May 5, 2013
Messages
134
Location
Maryland
Out of boredom I was looking up VOAs of different brand oils and when looking at the Red Line 5w30 VOA they have a [censored] ton of calcium, almost 3500ppm.

[URed Line]https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4848497/1[/URed Line]

I know their additive package wont allow them to get the SN rating, but out of curiosity whats the intention of having so much calcium? Aren't there diminishing returns with how much detergent you put in? I'd imagine a motor can get so clean once any build up is removed, and this isn't marketed as some sort of high mileage cleaning oil.
 
[Linked Image]
 
Because they aren't API certified if I remember right. Most of those higher end expensive oils aren't, but that doesn't mean they're bad oils.
 
Originally Posted by motor_oil_madman
Because they aren't API certified if I remember right. Most of those higher end expensive oils aren't, but that doesn't mean they're bad oils.

It's not that I think they're bad oils, just trying to understand what the purpose of having so much calcium is. High end oils pride them selves as race oils and I can understand why they'd go for extra levels of anti wear and such but not for a detergent. Seems like the old amsoil formula also had a ton of calcium too, but the new formulation being SN+ cut back calcium to below 1000ppm and added magnesium.
 
Originally Posted by 2000Trooper
Originally Posted by motor_oil_madman
Because they aren't API certified if I remember right. Most of those higher end expensive oils aren't, but that doesn't mean they're bad oils.

It's not that I think they're bad oils, just trying to understand what the purpose of having so much calcium is. High end oils pride them selves as race oils and I can understand why they'd go for extra levels of anti wear and such but not for a detergent. Seems like the old amsoil formula also had a ton of calcium too, but the new formulation being SN+ cut back calcium to below 1000ppm and added magnesium.


The reduced calcium came about after Toyota (and maybe a few other OEMs) linked high levels of calcium with LSPI on GTDI engines. So the Dexos 1 Gen 2 and new Dexos2 specs call for LSPI testing, and subsequently reduced calcium levels (about 1000-1200 ppm based on what I have seen).
 
Originally Posted by 2000Trooper
Out of boredom I was looking up VOAs of different brand oils and when looking at the Red Line 5w30 VOA they have a [censored] ton of calcium, almost 3500ppm.

[URed Line]https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4848497/1[/URed Line]

I know their additive package wont allow them to get the SN rating, but out of curiosity whats the intention of having so much calcium? Aren't there diminishing returns with how much detergent you put in? I'd imagine a motor can get so clean once any build up is removed, and this isn't marketed as some sort of high mileage cleaning oil.

Redline now has a low Calcium Dexos 1 Gen 2 oil. It's Red Line Oil Professional Series Full Synthetic Dexos Approved 5w30.
Google it.
 
Marketing. It is how these boutique brands (Amsoil and Royal Purple are others) set themselves apart. "More is better" marketing and typically the users of these oils are not concerned with the lifespan of their catalytic converters.

3500ppm calcium...Would that be an API SG (circa 1993) oil?


I would never hesitate to use Redline in a racing/track day application and they will take care of their customers.
 
Last edited:
They must have felt there was some benefit, especially pre-LSPI. Then there's marketing. IMO the majors have closed the gap so much in oil quality and value that the boutiques are grabbing at straws to retain and attract customers.
27.gif
 
Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Originally Posted by 2000Trooper
Out of boredom I was looking up VOAs of different brand oils and when looking at the Red Line 5w30 VOA they have a [censored] ton of calcium, almost 3500ppm.

[URed Line]https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4848497/1[/URed Line]

I know their additive package wont allow them to get the SN rating, but out of curiosity whats the intention of having so much calcium? Aren't there diminishing returns with how much detergent you put in? I'd imagine a motor can get so clean once any build up is removed, and this isn't marketed as some sort of high mileage cleaning oil.

Redline now has a low Calcium Dexos 1 Gen 2 oil. It's Red Line Oil Professional Series Full Synthetic Dexos Approved 5w30.
Google it.


Yes, and as we explored in our previous discussion on this, it's just a rebranded product from their parent company, definitely not worth paying a premium for if you can get the other version cheaper.
 
Originally Posted by zeng
It's basically using old school Calcium Sulfonates as detergents, no ?


Not really.

Some of the calcuim is calcium sulfonate for detergency and the other is a special calcium carbonate for friction reduction.
 
Originally Posted by metroplex
Originally Posted by 2000Trooper
Originally Posted by motor_oil_madman
Because they aren't API certified if I remember right. Most of those higher end expensive oils aren't, but that doesn't mean they're bad oils.

It's not that I think they're bad oils, just trying to understand what the purpose of having so much calcium is. High end oils pride them selves as race oils and I can understand why they'd go for extra levels of anti wear and such but not for a detergent. Seems like the old amsoil formula also had a ton of calcium too, but the new formulation being SN+ cut back calcium to below 1000ppm and added magnesium.


The reduced calcium came about after Toyota (and maybe a few other OEMs) linked high levels of calcium with LSPI on GTDI engines. So the Dexos 1 Gen 2 and new Dexos2 specs call for LSPI testing, and subsequently reduced calcium levels (about 1000-1200 ppm based on what I have seen).


That's not correct. Dexos2 does not cover LSPI. I use Motul xclean efe 5w30 that has the Dexos1 and dexos2 designation among others and it has 1800ppm of calcium as tested via a VOA.

https://www.mrtonneau.com/dexos-1-vs-dexos-2/


"Earlier GM suggested Dexos 2 for mass use but recently they discovered that this oil blend does not cover LSPI. Thus recently this oil is being used only for diesel engines. On the other hand the Dexos 1 oil has been evolved with two different categories and the Dexos1 gen 2 is the most updated one. This category is recommended for mass use at present."
 
Its simply because Redline and other high end oils don't have to fall claim to CAFE and EPA regulations and can still create an oil that protects, lubricates and does all of its other jobs without being castrated!
 
Originally Posted by Direct_Rejection
Red Line Dave has said that there have been zero reported incidents of LSPI with Red Line Oil,
in spite of the monstrous amounts of Calcium.


Red Line also has a high concentration of ZDDP which has shown to quench LSPI.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

G
  • Locked
Using ZDDP additive with or without extra Calcium
Replies
10
Views
7K
Zaedock
J
  • Locked
Castrol Edge and Edge HM info
2
Replies
31
Views
9K
buster
F
  • Locked
Might Redline have too much Potassium??
Replies
17
Views
10K
fuel tanker man
J
  • Locked
why so afraid??
2
Replies
27
Views
7K
fdcg27
E
  • Locked
Red Line oil in passenger cars
2 3 4
Replies
72
Views
20K
buster
Back
Top Bottom