Using ZDDP additive with or without extra Calcium

[Gunner14]

This post is not debating whether or not my flat-tappet 4.0L Jeep engine needs additional ZDDP in the oil. I have decided to raise the phosphorus ppm of my oil and am looking at ZDDPlus additive and the Red Line Engine Break-in additive P/N: 81403 (also labeled for routine use after engine break-in). I use Valvoline Max-Life Semi-syn 10w30 and want to boost the Phosphorus from 760ppm to around 1050-1100ppm (I change my oil every 3 mos/3000 mi). Here are my questions:

- The ZDDPlus only contains ZDDP with no detergents or other additives (the Phos is at 51,500 ppm so I will be adding about 1 oz. of the ZDDPlus to my 6 qts. of engine oil).

- The Redline product has Phos at 17,000 ppm, but also contains the additive Calcium at 14,000 ppm . I would be adding about 3.0 oz to raise my phosphorus, but would also be raising the Calcium ppm of the 6 qts. of engine oil from 1910 ppm to around 2120 ppm.

I don’t know if the the data sheet calcium levels listed for the valvoline oil or the Red Line additive is from calcium sulfonate or calcium carbonate.

I’m leaning toward using the ZDDPlus because I am guessing that in 3 mos./3000 miles, my Max-Life oil will still have a high enough calcium ppm level to neutralize the acids being formed. I’m basing this on my belief that ZDDP is benign when you put it in the oil, but as it is used while the engine is running, the by-products of the ZDDP has to be dealt with by the calcium additives that still should be present at the end of 3000 miles/3 mos. I’m not sure when you can have too much calcium in the oil, or even if the extra calcium is added to the Red Line product because more is needed during break-in only. Any opinions or help sure would be appreciated. Thanks in advance...

 

[Torrid]

I wouldn't add calcium in that case. I've used ZDDP additive before and I'd pick an oil that I like the add pack and just boost ZDDP.

 

[Loobed]

try Crane Cams Break-in lube

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/crane-cams-super-lube.87313/

 

[oggb]

Why not just use Rotella T5 and skip the oil additives? It's also semi-synthetic (if that matters to you) and has approximately the phosphorus level you're looking for.

In any case, I'm fairly certain I've read that detergents and anti-wear additives will "compete" - IE extra detergency could cause anti-wear adds. to not do their job as effectively.

 

[Gunner14]

I just looked at a Rotella T5 used oil analysis and the Calcium was over 2100 ppm and the Phos. was under 1000 ppm. I see for Valvoline VR-1 10w30 that the Phos is 1300 ppm and the CA is 2100. I guess my question really boils down to is:

What ratio should the the Phos. PPM be to the Calcium PPM in a balanced oil? - for a dedicated, non-racing gasoline engine oil with a Phos level at 1000-1100 ppm...

 

[Loobed]

I think Phosphorus is linked/paired with Zinc and not Calcium.

 

[Torrid]

Originally Posted By: Gunner14
I just looked at a Rotella T5 used oil analysis and the Calcium was over 2100 ppm and the Phos. was under 1000 ppm. I see for Valvoline VR-1 10w30 that the Phos is 1300 ppm and the CA is 2100. I guess my question really boils down to is:

What ratio should the the Phos. PPM be to the Calcium PPM in a balanced oil? - for a dedicated, non-racing gasoline engine oil with a Phos level at 1000-1100 ppm...


For 2100-2500ppm calcium I'd say 1300ppm zinc 1200ppm phosphorus. More than 1400 could be corrosive to some engine internals.

Sent you a PM regarding additives too.

 

[VR1]

Man if I were you I have a 4.0L and I run VR1 10w30 conventional and it seems to do just fine it has plenty of ZDDP with a good detergent/dispersant package. To me it is the best oil out for engines that need higher ZDDP not to mention priced good at that. Maxlife is a great oil but, still not enough ZDDP for the long run. I woudn't add ZDDP to the oil to me your just playing chemist and that can only get you in trouble becuase if you have to much ZDDP you will cause pitting and ring sticking as well as camshaft sprawling. Be safe use the VR1 with confidence.

 

[Zaedock]

Originally Posted By: VR1
Man if I were you I have a 4.0L and I run VR1 10w30 conventional and it seems to do just fine it has plenty of ZDDP with a good detergent/dispersant package. To me it is the best oil out for engines that need higher ZDDP not to mention priced good at that. Maxlife is a great oil but, still not enough ZDDP for the long run. I woudn't add ZDDP to the oil to me your just playing chemist and that can only get you in trouble becuase if you have to much ZDDP you will cause pitting and ring sticking as well as camshaft sprawling. Be safe use the VR1 with confidence.


Jeep 4.0L's don't need higher ZDDP. A 4.0L will run just as long on Supertech.

 

[VR1]

Well it might not be as severe as a hot cam but, in the long run you get much more engine wear on your pressure points if you aren't using a high ZDDP oil. Todays API oils are capped about 800 PPM but, think of it like this additives get depleted in the oil overtime right? Well is the same for ZDDP so the 800 PPM might be fine but, if it gets below 600 or so your in the danger zone for any application. You might get lucky but, more often than not its going to catch up one day. Running lower ZDDP in a flat tappet cam is like eating cheeseburgers everyday eventually its going to kill you in the long run.

 

[Zaedock]

Originally Posted By: VR1
Running lower ZDDP in a flat tappet cam is like eating cheeseburgers everyday eventually its going to kill you in the long run.


I think millions of Jeep engines have done perfectly well.

Many probably did it on Pennzoil or Quaker State too.