Why does oil need to be changed?

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rpn453, I guess you have tried Synlube, so you know what you are talking about?
If not, why are you writing comments about things you know nothing about?
I think this makes you look rather intelligent........

If you guys look back, a couple of hundred years, there was a big fuzz when a guy claimed that the earth wasn't flat....

Some of you, still seem to think that it is flat....

Did you know that the oilquality have been improving since 1950?

You have shown quite clearly, that you don't.
 
Of course, since the owner of this company is a Tribologist and member of the SAE, he knows a lot less about oil than the average American...

I find the information on the Synlube home page, so useful for some of the last posters, as a two year intencive course in higher mathematics for a monkey.

If you don't understand French, there is no use in reading it.
 
I may not understand technobabble, but I think everyone in America understands false advertising and overblown claims.
 
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Now, if I could only find that 100mpg carb for a Lincoln my day would be complete.

We could settle this Synlube stuff if either one of his coustomers would just log in. He couldn't have #@$%!ed of both of them, could he?

I just don't think that oil makes that much difference in the running of a modern engine. The difference is weather and driving habits and enough trips long enough to warm up the oil, not just the coolant. Engines don't need much in the way of tune ups or maintenace and the quality across the board is good enough. If you had two of the same model cars driven the same, with care and reasonable trip length there would be little difference over 250k miles between synthetic and conventional oil, changing either as often as you like. This is not to say there would be different expences involved, just that both cars would present themselves at the 250k mark pretty close to the same condition.

The Synlube product as presented is a bet with very bad odds. For those long odds you are spending a lot of money without firm knowledge that a promised result can be obtained and your exposure to a potential large risk is very real. The probem is that a car is not worth much if the engine is damaged internally and there is no cheap way to fix such problems and it is not a diy project.

If you are going to gamble with that amount of money I must tell you that you just missed the Kentucky Derby. The odds were better and you stood a chance to make a profit. With Synlube the best results of such a bet are to break even. At least at the Kentucky Derby you can still drive home if the bet went bad.
 
Well, if you are so sure that you are right about this one, it should be very easy for you to find ONE person with an engine, damaged by Synlube. They have been around for a while now(at least from 1969), so it shouldn't be so hard.
 
And another thing to considder: Wouldn't the FTC stop them if they have claims they don't fullfill?
 
Tempest, your questions are OK.

I don't think I am the right person to answer it, since I don't work for Synlube.
If you are really interested in an answer, you should contact Synlube directly, since you will not accept anything that I am writing.
This way, you will save both me AND yourself, a lot of time. The facts are out there, but you have just decided not to find them.

Lonnie, two posts after Bruce, I copied some words from one of Synlube's users. Is this what you are searching for? Or are you waiting for someone that have been using Synlube, to come home to you and tell you what he/she found?

People are strange, if you find something good, you keep it to yourself. But, if you find something that is bad, you shout it out.
This is why it shouldn't be a problem for you to find all the people that have their engines blown, because of Synlube. They would have been posting, that's for sure. Just try to find them by doing a Google search.
 
Jonny-b why the obsession with trying to convince everyone that Synlube is such a good product? It's probably a safe bet to say that the majority of people at BITOG could care less that you fell for the marketing nonsense and bought some to use in your car. Why have you taken it upon yourself to convert all the non-believers?
 
No, seriously I don't care that much.
But, what I find alarming, is the way some people are reacting. I would have found it normal if you all came from Iran, and your Ayatollah just have told you that the use of Synlube is blasfemi.

I just don't understand the reaction from people here.
The only reason I can see is that maybe someone have got their brain washed, with mineral oil.....
 
Must be nice to have nothing more important to do than go on an intercontinental crusade to enlighten the ignorant.
 
{ORIGINAL REMOVED} Take it easy there johnny-b. You've stated a controversial case. I've got no problem with you doing that, but vigorous disagreement from others does not authorize deviation from the board rules regarding tone or the making of political statements. That applies to all participants. Y'all be cool now. . .
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rpn453, I guess you have tried Synlube, so you know what you are talking about?
If not, why are you writing comments about things you know nothing about?
I think this makes you look rather intelligent........




Synlube? Huh? I was just trying to get some money transferred and noticed you were in Norway. I guess I'll have to make some other Norwegian rich instead.
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Of course, I was implying that your constant plugging of Synlube is like spam, whether the claims are true or not. Unfortunately, you'll find very few engineers that are willing to subject the mechanical equipment they depend on to experimentation with a lubricant that has no confirmed benefits and is far more expensive than the lubricants that are proven to work.
 
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Because it's worth it.




If you are going to try to convert people over to a product or a different line of thinking, you had better have all the answers. The questions I asked are simple and basic oil 101, yet you have directed me to contact Synlube for answers and my concerns. That is not a good way to conduct a debate, and will carry no weight with the well informed members here.

P.S. If you continue with the politics, this thread will get locked and what good will that do?
 
There is a long thread over at noria about synlube and the first oil analysis looked to me unimpressive with about 12-15k (can't remember). The iron level was 100+, but of course since this lube is so special there is something about additives or something which supposedly shows high iron. Whatever.
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Bobert, then you should read the reason whyit is so, here:

About Oil Tests
We at SynLube, Inc. receive many e-mails with questions about oil tests performed by various laboratories, and how to interpret them. This section should answer most of frequently asked questions, and help to understand the differences between conventional oils (both petroleum and synthetic) and our unique colloidal lubricants.

Specifics:
Iron = Fe
Conventional Petroleum or Synthetic oils will NOT show ANY Iron in FRESH OIL

SynLube™ however due to unique chemical formulation has typically 50 PPM in the INITIAL FILL OIL and about 75 PPM in the ADD OIL of Iron, because some of the ""sacrificial"" antioxidants contain Fe atoms in their chemical molecular make up.

Normally laboratories "Flag" Fe if PPM is greater than 100, although levels below 1,000 rarely translate into any mechanical problems or abnormal wear even in a Conventional Oil.

For practical purposes about 100 should be subtracted from the Lab report to project any "wear" and that is only simple rule.

Labs also usually test oils that are Frequently Changed, therefore oil that remain in the engine for over 10,000 miles will have much higher reading than oil that is changed every 3,000 miles.

The ONLY reliable indication of Relative wear is installation of TriMagnets onto the motor oil filter and replacing the oil filter at regular intervals (2 years or 25,000 miles). Cutting the filter apart with appropriate tool and inspecting visually the quantity and quality of the iron deposits that were trapped by the TriMagnet is much more reliable indication of wear since 80 to 90% engine wear is Ferro-magnetic.

Other less reliable method is taking the Fe reading from lab report, subtracting 100 PPM and dividing that by the miles on the oil.

Example: 114-100 = 14/12,000 = 0.00116

If the Fe value is LESS than 0.01 there is NO NEED for concern about the Iron reading.





Chromium = Cr
This is the ONLY wear element that is of concern in oil analysis of SynLube™, as NO Chromium is present in FRESH SynLube™ Lubricants.

Again Cr level in relation to miles on the oil is of importance and NOT the actual level, frequently

Some Chromium will be in the oil from the initial break in, and the level will remain constant over many thousands of miles or actually DROP with time and miles.

The Cr reading must be compensated for accumulated mileage.

Example: 11/12,000 = 0.0009

If the value is LESS than 0.005 there is NO NEED for concern about the Chromium reading.



Silicon = Si
Many OEM’s use Silicone Lubricant spray on engine components to prevent rust and to serve as initial break-in lube during engine assembly.

Readings of OVER 1,000 PPM are NOT uncommon on NEW engines, and as always some Silicone will remain even after several oil changes.

Silicone is usually interpreted by labs as Dirt, Dust or Sand if it is associated with "solids" in the oil test, however since SynLube™ has up to 33% by volume of colloidal solids, this rule can not be applied to SynLube™.

However SynLube™ uses silicone based anti-foam agents in most of the Lube-4-Life™ fluids, therefore silicone levels in 200 to 250 PPM are NORMAL for the formulations and can be as high as 500 PPM for ATF or PSF.



Tin = Sn
Chemicals that contain Tin Sn are component part of the INITIAL FILL OIL and readings of 55 to 67 PPM are NORMAL, the Tin level will actually decrease with the use of ADD OIL, and when it drops BELOW 25 PPM it indicates that either INITIAL FILL OIL or SERVICE FILL OIL should be used during NEXT OIL FILTER CHANGE, instead of the ADD OIL.



Molybdenum
SynLube™ oils contain Moly and therefore the Molybdenum levels will be in 3,000 PPM and above range, when level drops to below 1,000 PPM, INITIAL FILL OIL should be added instead of the ADD OIL, next time oil addition is needed.

Differing test equipment yields different Molybdenum levels from identical test sample, therefore data obtained from different laboratories can not be reliably compared.



Viscosity
SynLube™ Lube-4-Life™ is ISO 100 oil;

therefore the viscosity reading at 40ºC should be about 100 cSt.



SynLube™ Lube-4-Life™ is SAE 5W-50;

oil therefore the viscosity reading at 100ºC should be above 16 cSt and below 21.89 cSt.



There are Many differing testers that measure viscosity, and although when using viscosity standard calibration fluid, they can all be calibrated to show the SAME viscosity, this applies ONLY to Newtonian fluids.

Non-Newtonian fluids like SynLube™ will result in differing readings in different equipment design even if the calibration is the same, this sometimes can vary by as much as 200% at low temperatures and about 20 % at 100ºC to 150ºC range.

Therefore viscosity CHANGE between different oil tests is MORE important than any single viscosity reading, which is both temperature and equipment specific.

API considers oil fit for service even if viscosity of USED oil increases by 375% when compared to fresh oil.

Therefore unless ISO viscosity is above 400 cSt, SynLube™ by that standard is still OK.

We recommend oil change or addition of SERVICE FILL OIL when viscosity exceeds either 320 cSt @ 40ºC or 50 cSt @ 100ºC.





TBN
Total Base Number

As long as TBN is above 0.5 there is no need to change SynLube™, and even if TBN becomes NEGATIVE (TAN) then only small addition of 4 to 8 oz of TBN additive that is available from SynLube,Inc. will drastically increase TBN readings (sometimes OVER 10).

TBN is generally ONLY concern in some Diesel Engines that have sensitivity to oil which turns acidic.

TBN is not relevant in Gasoline fueled engines that utilize Unleaded Gasoline.

Most transmission oils are intentionally acidic as this helps with adhesion of anti-scuff additives onto gear faces and teeth.

TBN of SynLube™ also varies greatly with different tests, quick Electro chemical testers often yield false results because colloidal Graphite contained in SynLube™ is electric conductor and that affects the reading.

The ONLY reliable TBN determination is by laboratory titration and this test is time consuming and expensive, therefore unless specifically requested it is NOT performed during typical low cost oil test.



Solids
Unless inspection is done under 100X to 400X microscope, there are NO reliable automatic tests that will correctly indicate presence of Dust, Sand, Dirt, Soot and wear particles in the SynLube™ lubricants. SynLube™ contains as much as 33% by volume of colloidal solids (Graphite, PTFE – Teflon, Moly). Therefore these sub-micronic solids that are present in SynLube™ will not yield correct values for "contamination" tests, since they usually compare wear or impurities to conventional lubricants which contain NO SOLIDS when FRESH and solids only accumulate during their use.



Summary
Low cost oil analysis can be ONLY used for plotting of wear trend or oil viscosity change trend, any single test can not be used to indicate or predict equipment or oil quality.

There always MUST be comparison to FRESH oil analysis of the oil BEFORE it has been installed, as well as Oil that has been in the engine for about 200 miles or 5 hours.

This is because it is NOT possible to drain 100% of any previous lubricant from most mechanisms and values of slightly used oil may vary by as much as 20 to 50% when compared to FRESH UNUSED OIL.

Oils will undergo chemical changes when exposed to heat, which exceed 200 F.

During oil formulation and production conventional oils are not exposed to temperatures over 90º F and synthetic fluids seldom are produced at temperatures that exceed ambient or room temperatures of 70º F

To determine statistically meaning full trend based on OIL ANALYSIS following would have to be done:

Sample USED oil that was previously in the Engine.
Sample FRESH oil prior installation.
Sample Low Mileage USED oil (about 200 miles)
Sample High Mileage USED oil (about 25,000 miles)
Sample High Mileage USED oil (about 50,000 miles)
Only the variation between the TWO high mileage tests can be used for a meaningful wear trend or oil deterioration projections, the other tests only serve as base lines to which initial oil composition can be made.

Any SINGLE oil test will yield data that if compared to conventional petroleum or synthetic lubricants will result at best in "ABNORMAL" values or "FAIL" condition.

Since SynLube™ is unconventional long-life lubricant conventional oil test standards can not be applied to predict wear or oil condition if the FIVE-test plan shown above is not followed.

Since SynLube, Inc. has extensive experience with colloidal lubricants and of course with all SynLube™ products, we can either perform any requested or required oil analysis for our customers, or properly interpret results that are obtained from independent oil test laboratories.
 
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