Why does oil need to be changed?

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Found this rather interesting. Any comments?

When motorists are asked: "Why does motor oil need to be changed?" the most common answers are:

It gets dirty

It breaks down

Because my mechanic told me


Amazingly all above reasons are WRONG !

And here is why:

In modern fuel injected electronically controlled engines with "sealed" crankcases there is no way that "ambient" dirt can get into the engine oil. Only if AIR FILTER is defective (torn or improperly installed or missing) or PISTON RINGS are excessively worn or broken, small amount of "dirt" can be introduced into the engine lubricating oil.
(For more info go to: Dirty Motor Oil in Q&A in Publications)

The Hydrocarbon Oil in its pure form is quite stable chemical, after all it has been in existence for millions of years before it was introduced into your vehicle. Almost no amount of pressure or mechanical stress will "damage" the oil molecules. Interaction with other chemicals, extreme heat and availability of oxygen will cause oxidation, formation of gum, varnish and sludge, but not a "Break Down". The long chain polymer molecules that are present in most multi-viscosity oils to give them high viscosity index, can however shear under stress and become shorter or smaller molecules. This loss of multi-viscosity property is sometimes referred to as "Viscosity Break-Down" a term that was introduced by CASTROL in their GTX Motor Oil commercials.

Unfortunately most mechanics are NOT Automotive Engineers, are NOT Lubrication Engineers, are NOT Tribologists, are NOT Chemists, are NOT Rheologists.
Neither is typical mechanic equipped with MICROSCOPE, VISCOMETER, TITRATION UNIT, SPECTRO-CHEMICAL ANALYZER.
One needs all of above to determine if any Oil needs to be changed. Also since such TEST can cost from $10 to $100, depending on accuracy and complexity, it is more convenient to change oil at some arbitrarily determined interval.





There are two reasons why lubricants need to be changed periodically:

The most important reason is chemical change of the lubricant itself. The lubricant looses its lubricating capacity due to chemical decomposition of the oil itself and due to depletion of the chemical additives that are present in modern oils. The more severe are the operating conditions, the faster does this change occur.

The second reason is removal of wear particles that are present in the lubricant and which can not be removed by normal filtration. The greater the loads to which the mechanism is subjected the faster is the wear and more wear particles are present in the oil. Frequent starting and stopping of the engine, especially in winter, also increases wear and formation of "cold sludge".





Is there an alternative to frequent oil changes?
Yes, if more superior lubricant than that which is recommended by OEM is used, frequent servicing can be safely reduced or even eliminated.

Synthetic Oils are usually better than petroleum oils, permitting extended oil drain periods.

However it is important to not that just because Oil is Synthetic, it does not automatically imply that it can be used for service periods that are any longer than those specified by OEM for Conventional Petroleum Oil.

Both ExxonMobil (Mobil 1) and CASTROL (Syntec) specifically instruct consumers using their Synthetic Oils to follow OEM recommendations for Oil Change Interval that is same as specified for conventional petroleum oil !

CASTROL and Pennzoil both go as far as specifying only
3 month or 3,000 mile service interval (same as petroleum)
"for best performance".

AMSOIL is one of few companies that has several different longer life Motor Oils, some with one year or 24,000 mile service interval, and others with 6 month or 7,500 mile service interval.

Synthetic Super Lubricants with colloidally suspended solid lubricants in chemically inert liquid synthetic oil are the best (Syn-Sol). They eliminate the need for oil changes in most applications.





Why are Synthetic Oil better?
Lubricant is not automatically better or superior to Petroleum Oil just because it is or claims to be "synthetic". (For more details see Publications > Synthetic)

However, because many synthetic lubricants are chemically more uniform, and are stable under extreme pressures and temperatures (both hot and cold), and usually do not decompose as rapidly as petroleum base lubricants, longer oil change intervals are therefore permissible.

Modern Premium Synthetic lubricating oils will allows up to 24,000 miles or one year between engine oil changes.

(The same service life that was promoted by Mobil for the original version of Mobil 1 back in 1976 -- no such claim is now being made for the current version of Mobil 1 -- Tri-synthetic formula or the latest Mobil 1 with SuperSyn )

But likewise these permissible extended oil change intervals are based on the expected service life of ONLY 5 years or 50,000 miles for vehicles operated under ideal conditions. If vehicle is operated under severe service operating conditions (as most vehicles are), or if longer service life is required, this extended service interval needs be likewise reduced to one half or one third.

This means that engine oil should still be changed every 12,000 to 7,500 miles in most automotive and light truck applications.

There are number of "synthetic" oils available to consumers in the USA.

Most recognized brand is Mobil 1.

Others are Delvac 1, Amoco Ultimate, Exxon Synthetic,
Quaker State SynQuest, Valvoline SynPower, etc.

CASTROL Syntec is also promoted as "synthetic" despite of it being produced from Group III Petroleum Basestock (see Synthetic)

Because Synthetic Oils are about four times more expensive than equivalent petroleum oils, less than 4% of vehicle owners in the USA currently use them.

Premium Synthetic Oils are available from small companies such as AMSOIL, Eon, Red Line, Royal Purple.

Premium Synthetic Oils are six to nine times more expensive that petroleum oils, and since they are produced by small companies, reliable data on their market share is not available, but it is estimated to be less than 1/2 %.





Synthetic Blend - a Hype?
In recent years a new category of Motor Oils has been developed primarily in the USA, they are "Synthetic Blend" Motor Oils.

They are about half the price of "Fully Synthetic" motor oils which currently sell in the $4.25 to $5.00 price range for one U.S. Quart.

They promise the same performance as "Synthetics" but for half the price.

At first glance that seems promising, but when the ultimate truth of "Synthetic Blends" is examined, it is apparent that the only benefit that they offer, is a higher profit margin for the marketer of the oil.

Here are the facts:

"Fully Synthetic" Motor Oils contain 70% to 85% Synthetic Base Oil by volume, the balance are additives dispersed in Petroleum Carrier Oil. They sell for under $5.00 per US Quart and cost about $3.25 to manufacture.
The mark up is about 50%. The market share is about 4%.

Petroleum Motor Oils contain 80% to 95% Petroleum Base Oil by volume, the balance are additives dispersed in Petroleum Carrier Oil. They sell for about $1.00 per US Quart and cost about 35 cents to produce (even at price of crude oil @ $30.00 per barrel).
The mark up is about 150%. The market share is over 90%.

"Synthetic Blend" Motor Oils contain 5% to 20% Synthetic Base Oil, 60% to 70% Petroleum Base Oil, the balance are additives dispersed in Petroleum Carrier Oil. They sell for $2.00 to $2.50 per US Quart and cost ONLY about 50 to 60 cents to produce.
The mark up is 300%. The market share is about 2%.

The temptation of high returns on investment which is presented by "Synthetic Blend" Motor Oils is the only driving force behind their promotion, after all if you could double your profit, what would you rather sell "Petroleum" or "Synthetic Blend"?

Even Mobil, which for over 20 years held the position that "semi-synthetics" as they used to call what now is generally referred to as "Synthetic Blend", are a waste of money, if you want synthetic quality and synthetic performance get "100% Synthetic*" (Mobil 1, of course).

But now under the pressure of Exxon management since Mobil was merged into ExxonMobil,
guess what the latest news is: "Mobil 1 Synthetic Blend" !!!

"Synthetic Blend" is a hype, if you think that you can not "afford" synthetic oil, get petroleum oil and change it frequently.





Syn-Sol lubricants are the best!

Modern synthetic super lubricants that are especially designed for extended service life even under super severe operating conditions, and in many vehicle applications they can be installed permanently, that is no oil changes are required during the service life of a typical vehicle.

However, if extended service life is also required, the synthetic super lubricants should be replaced or micro filtered every 50,000 to 100,000 miles.

The best synthetic super lubricants are not just improved synthetic oils, but are blend of chemically inert solid lubricants, that are in colloidal suspension in a multi-viscosity liquid chemically inert synthetic lubricant. (Syn-Sol).

Unfortunately these synthetic super lubricants (Syn-Sol), were until very recently very expensive, costing from $250 to $1,425 per U.S. Quart. Therefore their use was limited to critical applications in space flight, military and industrial applications.

However, recent technological improvements in manufacturing techniques and increased demand for these lubricants, allowed for the price to be reduced to a point where their use in modern vehicles is now cost effective even in privately owned vehicles.

SynLube™ Lube-4-Life ® lubricants are the only such lubricants available to consumers in the USA.

In modern vehicles the use of SynLube™ Lube-4-Life ® is at current prices, not just cost effective, but costs no more than the use of Petroleum, or about one cent per mile driven.

When increased fuel efficiency and improved engine durability is considered, the use of SynLube™ Lube-4-Life ®actually saves to typical motorists over $1,000 during the service life of the typical vehicle.

SynLube™ Lube-4-Life ® lubricants are available as:

Motor Oil

ATF

Gear Oil

PSF

Grease
 
So the purpose of this thread is to be a SynLube informercial?
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from Budman on other thread about this junk

""I happened to be lurking one of my rare times around here and thought i'd drop in and update. Reading what I wrote back in June made me feel compelled to at least let everyone know what happened shortly after.

After about 15k on the oil, my Nissan Murano no longer carries Synlube. I have no hard factual evidence against Synlube other than my experience and what I was told.

Our Murano started to exhibit a "whine" of sorts around the time I posted above. It was an intermittent whine that sounded like it was the AC compressor as it seemed to have started while it was getting hot here and only happened at idle. We had our Murano in for what I would call an ever so slight "knocking" at take-off from a stop shortly before this whine started, in which the dealer never verified nor could find any cause. We just brushed it off until this whine started. It started to get worse so we made our trip to the dealer and was able to show them the sound.

They had called the next day and I was floored when the service manager told me he had changed the oil as whatever was in there was SO SLUDGED that it sort of chunked out. They did two engine flushes, filled it with their dino of choice and sent us on our way. I felt like a complete idiot as I had to play dumb (for warranty reasons) that I kept it on a strict DIY chance schedule. They asked me what I used and I told them "walmart brand synthetic oil" to get me off the hook a little. They admited to doing nothing more to the car than said service of oil change and flushes. It hasn't whined SINCE.

I have kept up with 4k (exxon dino) changes and all is fine. I honestly have noticed a slight drop in mpg's though being back on dino but it could just be change of driving habit as my wife now works closer to home.

I did contact Synlube and they told me I could have gotten 100% refund had I gotten back the drained oil (I was a little mad at Nissan for doing the service without asking, no matter how little it may seem to them) and he did offer that it may have been misinterpreted as sludge as Synlube is different looking to most mechanics. He did also suggest maybe something WAS fixed, but hidden as the oil, as dealers sometimes do (especially one who admits DIY changes) so as to shift any warranty possibilites later. I don't know what to think other than the car has been fine since and my wife has cursed me for "getting scammed on that expensive #@$%! oil I put in her car".

I think Synlube has good intentions and never once seemed dishonest. I can't say I would ever use it again as it seems the risks outweight rewards and there being just about zero hard evidence (other than testimonials) of its claims or worth. No hard feelings, just didn't work out for me. No where near 50k on one oil change.""

I will add synlube =
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nono.gif
 
Hi, Bruce.
My intention about posting this was not meant to be any Synlube infomercial.
I have thought about this, since reading it, and the info provided seem rather logic.
The story from Budman is a fair way to share his experience. I just wish more people would do so.
I am using Synlube myself in one of my cars now, and I don't have any negative experience, so far(actually, it has quietened the engine a lot and seem to perform a lot better than all other oils I have been using).
The reason why I posted this, is because I have't found any useful info on synthetic versus dino. This is only a small fraction of the info that they have on their page, trying to explain differences between synthetic, mineral and blends. Synlube also seem to be a red flag for some people.
 
And Bruce, since you like to copy what some say, but leave out what other say, here is anther point of wiev, found at the Noria forum:

SynLube is an extremely small company that does not have any advertising except for its webpage. Even to many who have been in the automotive industry for a long time, their existance is still a surprise and they obviously cannot compete with the more powerful competitors here and don't even try.

Despite Callisa's blanket refusal to consider SynLube's advantages, I believe the information that I provided you is essentially correct. I am not an oil expert as Callista claims to be (and may well be) but I have seen "experts" deny the quality of this product many times before. The two most frequently given excuses for writing SynLube off are: 1) If it is as good as is it is supposed to be why aren't car manufacturers using it? 2) If it seems too good to be true, then it probably is. When I hear those responses, it's as sure as the sun rises, they have made up their minds to ignore it whatever the cost.

The BobIsTheOilGuy site was particularly resistant to new information treating SynLube from the start as a snake oil. Many of them claim to be experts but true experts learn about something before making a judgment and I didn't get that sense from many of their responses.

One of my theories about this kind of behavior is that oil guys love to talk about how clean their oil is after 5K miles and how the oil analysis they just got back shows that there's no problems. Switch to SynLube and all that enjoyment's gone because you can put it in a properly operating engine and just about forget it except to check for proper fluid levels once in a while. Life gets very dull.

I've seen this happen with bicycles. When I got started with them back in the 70s, the parts were very poor. Shifting was terrible and failures were frequent. There was a sense of excitement with every ride and if I got home without a problem, it was great. With better components came better performance and reliability and cycling became less exciting.

As I've pointed out, I have almost 4 years of experience with this lubricant. I have never had a problem with it. Oil consumption runs about 40-60K miles per quart. My fuel consumption is generally better than others who have comparable vehicles (Focus and Ranger), even those who claim to drive as conservatively as I do.

Being a skeptic is a good starting point for investigation if it doesn't mean rejecting information without justification. Why don't you read through the pages of the website and see if you don't see some one who is writing in good faith. I admit, the style of writing isn't great but Miro Kefurt is a member of SAE and has a thorough background in chemistry that shows in this oil formula. Finally, e-mail him with a couple of questions about things that concern you and get his response. More than anything else, his common sense responses to my questions were what convinced me to try SynLube.

One final point: The latest version of the SynLube formula, introduced in 1996, exceeded the new API SM and the ILSAC GF-4 (?) specs without modification.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Houckster, Thu September 09 2004 12:21 AM
 
Quote
-------
" It gets dirty

It breaks down

Because my mechanic told me


Amazingly all above reasons are WRONG !

In modern fuel injected electronically controlled engines with "sealed" crankcases there is no way that "ambient" dirt can get into the engine oil. Only if AIR FILTER is defective (torn or improperly installed or missing) or PISTON RINGS are excessively worn or broken, small amount of "dirt" can be introduced into the engine lubricating oil. "
------

Every time one checks the oil, one can introduce foreign material into the crankcase via the dip stick tube, or while topping-up. The air filter is only so effective as well, otherwise it would be very restrictive and lead to increase pumping losses and/or require a LARGE filter/media surface area. The material that gets past the filter may not all get past the rings, but what does along with how it might surve as a buffing compound, will elevate wear materials that will likely find it's way into the oil. Sounds like oil contamination to me, and with multiple types of metal debries in the oil along with moisture, you have the potential for electrolytic action/corrosion to occur.

-----
"The most important reason is chemical change of the lubricant itself. The lubricant looses its lubricating capacity due to chemical decomposition of the oil itself and due to depletion of the chemical additives that are present in modern oils. The more severe are the operating conditions, the faster does this change occur."
-----

Sounds like breakdown to me.

It's easy to be a sceptic when information given seems to be contradictive. Then when further information is sought, unfortunately a standstill is presented in that such sought information is held at the expense of protecting the product/developer and/or at further $$$.

Of all the people that visit I believe a majority of them do in hopes of getting the most useful life out of their origional equipment while at the same time not having to make any great single expense. Granted many view time as money, but some just do things for the pleasure and experiences of it. If I was to have an income dependent upon the earnings of another, that might have an inpact on my way of thinking, but I honestly don't believe I would ever put myself in such a parasitic position knowingly.

Take care.
 
Cuurious Kid, as you may(or maybe not) know, most airfilters filter more than 98% of the dirt in the air. This means that what you see in the filter, is at least 50 times!! more than what is getting into your engine:

http://www.duramax-diesel.com/spicer/index.htm
And, the particles that get into the engine, should be trapped in the oilfilter.

Another thing, when I check my oil, I choose not to shovel dirt into the engine, with my dipstick. I only can point out for you that you should stop doing so, but I can't stop you.

Curious Kid said: "The most important reason is chemical change of the lubricant itself. The lubricant looses its lubricating capacity due to chemical decomposition of the oil itself and due to depletion of the chemical additives that are present in modern oils. The more severe are the operating conditions, the faster does this change occur."
-----

Sounds like breakdown to me."

I thought you understood that this were not about Synlube, because: SynLube™ does not oxidize nor decompose like conventional Petroleum or Synthetic Motor Oils. It can be therefore used, without oil changes, for up to 15 Years / 150,000 Miles or for up to
5,000 Hours of Engine operation in Gasoline Engines, or up to 2,000 Hours in Diesel Engines.

As you said, it's easy to be a sceptic etc, etc.
You have clearly demonstrated that it is.

Have you considdered that maybe others(oilcompanies) depend on people doing unneccessary oilchanges, and already have put you in such aa parasitic position unknowingly?


Take care.
 
I agree, especially the music. I turn the sound off, when I go to their wbsite.

On the other hand, it is good to see that they don't spend money on such things, but focus on their products.
 
Oil does get dirty. We can see this with particle counts and insolubles. We can also see from UOA's that ingested dirt DOES make a difference in wear. This is something that Terry has really emphasized.

Oil does break down...as shown by nitration and oxidation values. Additives do "run out" and have to be replaced.

The Synlube site says their oil is non petroleum, non reactive, and made from 5 different fluids. No mention of what they are, or where they get this magical fluid made with "rare chemicals" from. They must buy it from someone... Even a company the size of Amsoil has to buy their base stocks from the big boys.

And the only non petroleum oils that I am aware of are esters. These are still subject to the same potential for break down as petroleum, they are just more robust.
 
Quoted from http://www.synlube.com/prod01.htm under product description.

"SynLube™ is a synergetic blend of man-made liquid and solid chemically inert lubricants that are thermally stable from -65°F (-54°C) to over 500°F (260°C). The sub-micronic particles of Graphite, PTFE and MoS2 are colloidally suspended in a mixture of synthetic liquid lubricants."

"SynLube™ does not oxidize nor decompose like conventional Petroleum or Synthetic Motor Oils. It can be therefore used, without oil changes, for up to 15 Years / 150,000 Miles or for up to
5,000 Hours of Engine operation in Gasoline Engines, or up to 2,000 Hours in Diesel Engines."

I just get that "snake oil" feeling about this product. If there was a synthetic base stock that never oxidized or decomposed don't you think someone else would be using it.

Hmm, PTFE (Teflon), sounds like a Slick 50 additive commercial.
 
jonny-b, I need your help. Having consulted with my colleagues and based on the information gathered from the Nigerian Chambers Of Commerce And Industry, I have the privilege to request for your assistance to transfer the sum of $47,500,000.00 (forty seven million, five hundred thousand United States dollars) into your accounts. The above sum resulted from an over-invoiced contract, executed commissioned and paid for about five years (5) ago by a foreign contractor. This action was however intentional and since then the fund has been in a suspense account at The Central Bank Of Nigeria Apex Bank.

We are now ready to transfer the fund to Norway and that is where you come in. It is important to inform you that as civil servants, we are forbidden to operate a foreign account; that is why we require your assistance. The total sum will be shared as follows: 70% for us, 25% for you and 5% for local and international expenses incident to the transfer.

The transfer is risk free on both sides. I am an accountant with the Nigerian National Petroleum Corporation (NNPC). If you find this proposal acceptable, we shall require the following documents:
(a) your banker's name, telephone, account and fax numbers.
(b) your private telephone and fax numbers -- for confidentiality and easy communication.
(c) your letter-headed paper stamped and signed.
Alternatively we will furnish you with the text of what to type into your letter-headed paper, along with a breakdown explaining, comprehensively what we require of you. The business will take us thirty (30) working days to accomplish.

Please reply urgently.
 
how to make an infomercial for a bogus product:

Step 1: "Educate" the consumer.
Step 2: Introduce product

disclaimer: step 1 must not involve factual information and must not be on a subject that the average individual is well versed in. Step 2 must introduce a product that solves a problem that only exists in the fictional educational "step 1."
 
My &*#$&(#@$ detector is going off....

Quote:


The most important reason is chemical change of the lubricant itself. The lubricant looses its lubricating capacity due to chemical decomposition of the oil itself and due to depletion of the chemical additives that are present in modern oils. The more severe are the operating conditions, the faster does this change occur.



And this differs from "breaking down" how?

Quote:


The second reason is removal of wear particles that are present in the lubricant and which can not be removed by normal filtration. The greater the loads to which the mechanism is subjected the faster is the wear and more wear particles are present in the oil. Frequent starting and stopping of the engine, especially in winter, also increases wear and formation of "cold sludge".



And this differs from "getting dirty" how?

liar.gif


That whole thing sounds like a bunch of technobabble nonsense to me. They loudly decry as being WRONG the commonly-held reasons for changing engine oil, and then give us the "real reasons" - which are long-winded restatements of what was just denounced.

An expert I am not, but these folks are setting off all kinds of alarm bells in my head. I'll stay far away for now....
 
How, if even possible, is NOT changeing your oil such a fantastic feature anyway? 10 minutes a few times a year. I can use my extractor and cheap oil, resulting in a change for $6. Going something like 7k, I can do that how many times for the same money verses Synboob? That option is no-risk, performance >GUARANTEED<.
 
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