Why does Honda recommend 10k OCI?

[ruking77]

http://www.chevyavalanchefanclub.com/fun_stuff/may2002/page002.html

Short of an actual oil analysis program, in my opinion the next best thing: oil life monitoring.

 

[Jay]

quote:

---

Originally posted by asiancivicmaniac:
Is there a Honda out there that has ran 10k oci's for most of its life and has over 100,000k miles? I'm just curious.

---

There must be by now. I believe that Honda began the 10Kmi normal-service OCI recommendation with the 2001 model year.

 

[JohnBrowning]

Initial Cost of Ownership= Longer maintence intervals all the way around. In some cases manufactures will completely elimanate some items as maintnece items and make them as needed to get around this. Some items like fuel filters, trany fluid exchange, and belts are now routinely listed as inspect and replace as needed.

 

[ruking77]

A couple of points, there are some Toyota, VW and Audi engines that have both a higher probablity and % of the fleet that are prone to sludge. My 1985 Toyota Camry in additon to MANY other issues, was a sludge a matic. Recent examples are some Toyota 6 cylinders, VW 1.8T, 2.0's Audi 1.8T and 2.0's etc

Honda is seems to me after some personal experiences (1982 Honda Accord 4 cylinder) and also research on Honda and other websites (notably Bob's

) does not seem AS prone to being what I call a sludge a matic.

[ October 03, 2005, 11:52 AM: Message edited by: ruking77 ]

 

[Ray H]

Time for a low-maintenance wife...

 

[Dad2leia]

Ray H...you have NOOOOOOOO idea!!! But alas, I feel in love, young and stupid, then I bought the car...

 

[Ray H]

I suffer much the same malady, but I'm old.

 

[sands]

quote:

---

All it says is that you should use 5w20 and go to a heavier weight oil only if you do a lot of towing.

---

Heavier ? Must mean heavier oil will protect the engine better when it's having to rev higher and run much hotter when towing...Guess the 5w20 is too thin for adequate protection at higher engine temps.

There must be something to heavier weights and less engine wear under certain conditions.

[ October 03, 2005, 05:31 PM: Message edited by: sands ]

 

[2019CRVlx]

Think I try 5k oil changes with 5-20w M1 and a Honda filter.

 

[AndyH]

FWIW, I'm doing 5k oil changes on my sister's 2004 Civic VP with Havoline 5w-20 and the good (Filtech) Honda oil filter. No oil analysis, but it runs like a top with no oil consumption.

 

[ssmokn]

quote:

---

Originally posted by JohnBrowning:
Initial Cost of Ownership= Longer maintence intervals all the way around. In some cases manufactures will completely elimanate some items as maintnece items and make them as needed to get around this. Some items like fuel filters, trany fluid exchange, and belts are now routinely listed as inspect and replace as needed.

---

How does one inspect a fuel filter on a modern car?

My wife had a '96 Maxima that I brought in for some warranty work at about 15K miles. Among other things the dealer changed the fuel filter. When I questioned the service writer they stated that the mechanic visually inspected the filter and it was dirty. I asked to speak with the mechanic. I wanted to inquire as to his x-ray vision.

Got my money back on that one. They also did tire rotation and balance. The balance was only $5 more. I thought that was a SUPER deal. When I inspected the tires (after the fuel filter deal I inspected everything) and noticed that there were no new weights. I inquired and the same service write said all the tires were in perfect balance. Ya, right. My reply was "I was born at night, but not last night". I told them to do it over with me watching and if they were right I would pay their labor rate for the time spent plus any parts (weights). They declined and gave me my money back on that one too.

Never went to that dealer again (or any other Nissan dealer for that matter). Maintained the car myself and sold it after 3 years. Haven't bought a Nissan since.

Anyway, sorry for the rant but do tell how one inspects a modern fuel filter.

 

[McnBcn]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dad2leia:
Do all newer Hondas have the OLM, or just certain models? I have a 2004 CR-V and it doesn't have one.

---

Dad2leia, not all new Hondas have the OLM. My '05 S2000 does not. The owner's manual for it recommends 7500 mile oil changes for "normal" and 3750 for "severe" conditions. I'll bet the Civic doesn't have an OLM either.

 

[ruking77]

quote:

---

Originally posted by McnBcn:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dad2leia:
Do all newer Hondas have the OLM, or just certain models? I have a 2004 CR-V and it doesn't have one.

---

Dad2leia, not all new Hondas have the OLM. My '05 S2000 does not. The owner's manual for it recommends 7500 mile oil changes for "normal" and 3750 for "severe" conditions. I'll bet the Civic doesn't have an OLM either.

---

The 2004 Honda Civic VP does not have the OLM. Perhaps my dealer's sales experiences might be telling. While I was happy with the new car deal, one of the full court press routines was the extra products/services list. They made it a particular emphasis that Honda has come a very long way from the "standard" 3k OCI. The services/product being pitched with that lead in was the 5k oil and filter changes!?

 

[Dad2leia]

So much for the extended OCI's coming into play. 5K miles is the current interval that I use with a high quality synthetic, and I know that that is probably a good waste of some of the oil's life.

I have an oil in the crankcase now that I'm going to leave in for 7.5K miles and see what happens. I'll eventually get to the 10K mile mark for OCI's. I know that would make the wife happy (read less money needed for car stuff and more money for HER shopping trips!).

 

[Ray H]

Simple - just look through one end and if you see light at the other, the filter's not clogged... (It's not filtering either, but, that's beside the point.)

 

[PandaBear]

quote:

---

Is there a Honda out there that has ran 10k oci's for most of its life and has over 100,000k miles? I'm just curious

---

My Integra (still a Honda) runs 10k OCI on M1 and is now 165k, burn 0.75 quart / 10k miles.

 

[PandaBear]

quote:

---

What Honda has now done it appears, at least with this engine, is use the OLM computer chip (which is probably very similar to the GM OLM) to measure oil depletion factors rather than use a mileage/month basis for its OCI. Their OLM takes into account driving habits such as short trips by factoring in engine revolutions, oil temps, etc.

---

I am not too sure whether an additional chip is needed or will help. Since OLM is not at all computational intensive, they can just run it in the background of the ECU with idle processing power and still be accurate enough.

The biggest problem is to keep the data between power cycle. You can lose the control variable for fuel/ignition compensation because you will gain it back in a few hundred miles, but losing the OLM counter, you may end up with a sludged up engine.

Another info I learn from sites like hondata (a ECU tuning product company), is that newer OBD requirement is to be flashable (reprogrammable). So they may use a few flash sector to store the OLM data between battery disconnect, so no chip is needed unless they use sensor based OLM.

 

[Brett Miller]

A friend of mine ran an 88 Nissan Sentra to 240,000 changing 15W-40 every 10,000 miles. The frame rusted off but the engine still ran well.

 

[2019CRVlx]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Brett Miller:
A friend of mine ran an 88 Nissan Sentra to 240,000 changing 15W-40 every 10,000 miles. The frame rusted off but the engine still ran well.

---

Well if a Nissan did it a Honda certainly can.

Seriously, I think pushing 10k OCIs on conventional oil is questionable especially if a good part of your driving is city mileage.

 

[Hokiefyd]

For what it's worth, I just changed the battery a few weeks ago on my '97 Cadillac Seville and although some of the data was lost (like radio presets), most of the powertrain data persisted, like the OLM "% life left" figure. There must be some keep-alive power in the PCM somewhere.

Regarding city vs. highway usage and change intervals, that's exactly what the OLM is for. It knows your driving style and the environment in which you drive. I would trust the manufacturer, who validated the OLM using modern oils on their modern engine. If the OLM doesn't recommend a change until 10k miles, even if it's pure city driving, I don't see anything wrong with that. The OLM knows our driving a lot better than we do.