Why Do Foreign Cars Hold There Value

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Originally Posted By: brianl703
My Fox-body Mustang, with Tokico shocks and struts and subframe connectors and poly control arm/steering rack bushings, handles a heckuvalot better than it did when I first got it.

It's tolerable now
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Yes, but how comfortable is it on normal (i.e. chewed up around here) roads?

Remember the redesigned Corvette of the mid-80s? Handled like a F1 race car, but just about caused kidney damage on public roads. It's amazing the thing didn't pound itself apart after 20k.

I know my R, to the extent it goes out at all this time of year, is riding on the "comfort" setting. It can still be a rough ride at times.

Ahh . . . the pleasures of good handling cars.
 
I remember reading years ago on the Contour mailing list about how the Contour SE had much stiffer springs than the Contour LX (which is what I had) and there were comments from people saying things like "I wouldn't want a suspension that stiff for normal driving" etc.

Well, I put the Contour SE struts and springs in my LX, and you know what? I have no idea why some people didn't like that setup! (Later on I got a Contour SE and the stiffness was still fine by me, so it wasn't a case of me not getting the right struts and springs for the LX)

So.....I think my Mustang is comfortable enough, but I would expect that many people would think it too harsh.

Quite honestly, the only thing about any PA road that annoys me is the condition of US30 (between Gettysburg and York)---that road has ruts in it and any car you drive on it will wander all over the place. My Saab does it, my Mustang does it, my Contour did it, etc.

Must be a real joy to drive on in the rain since the water will start puddling in the ruts...
 
Let's be brutally honest here: if it can't be made to get around a corner without riding like a shopping cart, it's not a car that handles well. It's just a relatively light car with fat tires and stiff springs.

As I said, I see the appeal of the Mustang and I will never say its success was not deserved. They are truly lovable and deservedly popular cars. But they are not lovable or popular because they ride or drive or handle well. They are lovable because they do some things well and other things poorly, and they are popular because they are a cheap way to hit a few essential buttons.
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Let's be brutally honest here: if it can't be made to get around a corner without riding like a shopping cart, it's not a car that handles well. It's just a relatively light car with fat tires and stiff springs.

As I said, I see the appeal of the Mustang and I will never say its success was not deserved. They are truly lovable and deservedly popular cars. But they are not lovable or popular because they ride or drive or handle well. They are lovable because they do some things well and other things poorly, and they are popular because they are a cheap way to hit a few essential buttons.


The Cobra with IRS was a good handling car. All years. It's the standard models with the modified 4-link out back that needed "help".....
 
I actually like the fact that people perceive imports as better. They cause domestic prices to drop and let people like me get good deals on cheap domestics. Thanks all of you!

I buy my cars with no intention of selling or trading so I could care less about resale value, I intend to drive the wheels off the thing. I bought a Neon new in 2004 and it has over 128k on it as of today. Best of all this car has been perfect, absolutely no problems.

Now my daughters Honda Odyssey van on the other hand... That vehicle cost her good money because it's a Honda, and what a piece of garbage it's been.
 
The quality of Honda vehicles has come down since they hit their zenith in the mid 80's to early 90's. They are still very good cars but now have their share of problems like every other maker.
 
Lets clarify some issues that have been brought up. First, most European and Asian brands are manufactured in the USA. Toyota for example has been manufacturing the Tacoma at the NUMMI plant in Fremont, California. The North American parts content of my Tacoma manufactured at that plant in 2003 is about 65%. That NUMMI plant is joint owned by GM. The workers were UAW.

Second, the Toyota Tundra I just purchased is manufactured in Texas. The North American parts content is 90%.

Since I have owned GM's and Toyota's I can only vouch for my experience with them. However, I have witnessed my relatives, and friends issues with GM's and Fords.

Before deciding to purchase the Tundra we reviewed our options. The choice kept falling back to the Tundra. Had GM not redesigned the truck line it would probably been extremely difficult to choose between that and the Tundra. In the end the Tundra one on numerous, deciding factors.

We typically keep a vehicle until it is 15-20 years old so that was a major factor. Resale was not an issue.

My 2003 Tacoma has been a fantastic truck. I enjoy driving it. At 70,000 miles it drives better than it did when it was brand new.
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
My $0.02:

In general -- as in, there are some exceptions -- European cars are WAY more rewarding to own and drive. Even if the specs and overall build quality are similar, European cars usually have better ergonomics and far better driving dynamics (handling, feel, etc.). Those advantages are always there, even when the cars get very old. By contrast, American cars tend to be bland when they're new, and bland AND busted when they're old. Again, not always true, but mostly true. American cars are catching up in those respects, like they did in build quality. They just have a ways to go yet.

Moreover, some American cars really, truly are that [censored]. The Buick LaCrosse, Dodge Avenger, and Dodge Nitro spring instantly to mind; there are certainly more. They're terrible to drive and honestly feel like they'll fall apart.

Also, for the very recent American cars, there's the fact that people don't want to buy something from a company that they feel is about to go bust.

Those are all good points, and add up to this: which cars are worth maintaining, worth repairing, and worth keeping for a long long time?

If a particular car is boring even when new, the owner may very soon think about replacing it. If he's already decided not to keep it for a long time, then he will soon not bother maintaining it properly or fixing the little things when they go wrong.

If/when this attitude applies to all owners of Model X, then Model X will tend to have many sellers compared to the number of potential buyers... and resale values will go down.

MB, BMW, VW... they are not boring cars, whatever else you might say about them. So owners automatically tend to think about keeping them longer than domestic brands, and automatically think more about what it will take to keep them running longer. Surveys which measure how long each particular brand lasts nearly always show MB cars lasting the longest -- they may not be the best, but owners will spend the money to fix them because owners think the repairs are worth making. You just do not throw away a used MB like you would a used Kia or Dodge.

The other factor driving down values for used domestic brands is the constant, year-after-year discounting of new models. Big rebates and discount financing for new models reduce the value of used models. The Detroit 3 have to keep selling the new cars for whatever price they can get, because they need the cash flow even if they can't make the profits.

For instance, if a local Dodge dealer is selling two new Ram 1500 pickups for the price of one, then the resale value of used Ram 1500 pickups is not going to be too good. Likewise, if they are giving away PT Cruisers with the purchase of another Dodge or Chrysler car, the resale value for PT Cruisers will be poor.
 
I agree with some that domestic cars get punished in the market places probably more than they deserved to be. In 2007, my in-laws bought a 2005 La Sabre for a little over $8k. $8k for a car that stickered at around $25K! It's been a great car for them. Reliable, cheap to maintain, comfortable, decent mileage. They've put 30K miles on it since then with zero problems. They also looked at used Camry's and Accords and they were total rip offs. I don't understand why people buy used Hondas and Toyotas when for a little more money, they get new ones. It's a totally inflated used car market.
 
Originally Posted By: JDD
Euro cars depreciate quickly the first couple of years then the rate of depreciation slows down. Euro cars tend to have owners that take care of them the best, so you see lots of them that are very well kept and that keeps the price up. Exception--VWs. They depreciate similar to second tier Japanses cars.


http://blog.wired.com/cars/2007/11/vw-tops-resale.html

VW Tops Resale Value Rankings, While Big Three Lag
By Marty Jerome November 16, 2007

While quality continues to climb for Detroit automakers, vehicle resale values haven't caught up. For 2008, Kelly Blue Book announced this week its 10 best and worst brands for predicted resale values. Volkswagen was the overall winner with three models (the Eos, the Jetta, and the Rabbit). Corvette was the top model for resale value, but none of the Big Three made the top-10 list for brands.
Top 10 Brands for 2008
1. VW
2. BMW
3. Acura
4. Honda
5. Porsche
6. Subaru
7. Lexus
8. Infiniti
9. Audi
10. Toyota

Bottom 10 Brands for 2008
1. Suzuki
2. Kia
3. GMC
4. Mercury
5. Dodge
6. Chrysler
7. Lincoln
8. Jeep.
9. Ford
10. Jaguar
Source: Wall Street Journal

The original article, with more information: http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB119500709742992309.html
 
I've always bought new ford vehicles and got ripped every time I traded in while watching foreign's excell in resale value. Now sadly, that I am tired of loosing my a$$ with domestics it seems that everybody knows (even on here)that the foreigns are loosing some of their quality. Coincidentally it keeps getting noted that they are also in increasing numbers being made HERE!
 
Originally Posted By: VeeDubb
They also looked at used Camry's and Accords and they were total rip offs. I don't understand why people buy used Hondas and Toyotas when for a little more money, they get new ones. It's a totally inflated used car market.

Are you saying the entire market has colluded in an artificial and unjustified inflation of the resale value of those cars?

Call me crazy, but I think it's more likely that there's a reason for it. Maybe the reason has been exaggerated, but I think it's safe to say it exists.
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: VeeDubb
They also looked at used Camry's and Accords and they were total rip offs. I don't understand why people buy used Hondas and Toyotas when for a little more money, they get new ones. It's a totally inflated used car market.

Are you saying the entire market has colluded in an artificial and unjustified inflation of the resale value of those cars?

Call me crazy, but I think it's more likely that there's a reason for it. Maybe the reason has been exaggerated, but I think it's safe to say it exists.


I'm not saying there's collusion, conspiracies, etc. I'm saying its a bubble. A pervasive sterotype that has been on an upward trend. My folks began their search of used cars with Honda and Toyota without even doing any research. They "heard" they were the best used cars. I'm not saying they are not great used cars. What I am saying is the gap between used ones and news ones are not great enough to justify a used one.

My brother in-law bought a 3 year old camry for $16K. With factory rebates, he can get a new one for nearly the same price. That is not a used car bargain.

When I was shopping for my Sienna, I checked out the used market. I could have gotten a 2006 for about $25K in 2007. Well, Toyota was running a $1000 cash back on 2007s with 3.9% financing. I ended up with a brand new Sienna for $25,900 at 3.9% financing with zero down. So for basically a few hundred more, I had a brand new car that is one model year newer. Why would I purchse used?
 
For the slow depreciation to be unfair, there would have to be a large difference in quality or reliability between a new Toyota/Honda and a used one. Can you prove that?
 
"Are you saying the entire market has colluded in an artificial and unjustified inflation of the resale value of those cars?"

It's pretty much a worthless list as one really needs to look at specific models. One may end up bypassing the best resale if that is what one is looking for, gee, just what was noted.
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
For the slow depreciation to be unfair, there would have to be a large difference in quality or reliability between a new Toyota/Honda and a used one. Can you prove that?


No more than I can prove that the large depreciation between a new buick and a used Buick is justified. It's all about how one perceives value. That's how you make money when buying and selling anything. You look for deals and avoid what you consider to be over-valued assets or goods. If you think used Hondas and Toyotas are worth only a couple hundred less than a new one, then keep buying them. In fact, why would I want to prove otherwise? You'd help keep the value of my Toyota up
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Originally Posted By: qship1996
One good look at Consumers Reports annual OWNERS SURVEY{where they poll thousands of original owners of the various cars reported on} will separate the fact from fiction.Japanese cars are still rated well above the American cars,and the American cars are getting better,now ahead of most European brands.The gap has narrowed in initial short term quality, but long term durability/quality is still far better with [censored] cars over both the domestics and euros.SAD, BUT TRUE


That's a survey of the opinions of a small set of owners. It doesn't track whether they really are the owners of the cars they are rating, and it doesn't check for whether the survey takers are telling the truth. I took the survey once- it just gives the various categories, and asks you to rate your experience 1-5. All the CR survey reports is their subscribers PERCEPTIONS of quality and value, not the reality of it.
 
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