Why are outlets now prohibited under cabinets and in kitchen islands

[Hall]

I don't leave my cords wound together when using my coffee-maker, so that excess cord has to go somewhere, and it will likely be hanging off the counter

That's your choice and you're allowed to do that too. How hard is it to wrap up the excess cord to avoid it though ?

 

[opus1]

That's your choice and you're allowed to do that too. How hard is it to wrap up the excess cord to avoid it though ?

I've always worked under the mantra that the cord should be unwound to allow any heat build-up to dissipate.

 

[KevinMalone]

What hasn’t been mentioned is that code requires the neutral blade of the receptacle to be mounted upwards

Can you provide the code reference? I do the same out of habit but have never found anything in the code about it.

 

[factorytuned2012]

Can you provide the code reference? I do the same out of habit but have never found anything in the code about it.

Yeah I’ve never delved into it until now.. it seems to be a jurisdictional type code, i just took my local inspectors word on it since his explanation made sense.. that if a utensil fell and came in contact with the blade of a partially inserted plug it would hit the grounded neutral or metallic trim plates coming loose. Always good to reference national code with local and jurisdictional standards

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Recently I watched a short video on kitchen design. The presenter of the video mentioned something I heard not so long ago.

Outlets are now prohibited under cabinets and externally mounted on kitchen islands.

Any ideas why the change in kitchen outlet locations? Will existing homes need these outlets removed in order to pass an inspection if the owner is selling their home?

Code adoption is largely a local affair. States and municipalities can decide what the want to adopt.

 

[Rust_Belt_Pete]

People died or people stupid.
I seen a "contractor" put an outlet UNDER the kitchen sink on the cabinet floor next to a mini water heater

 

[alarmguy]

We have them in our island and use them frequently. I’m glad we squeaked by. Even though our house was completed and C/O’d in 2023 we have them on the side. I suppose states don’t always follow the NEC. OR the fact the building plans were approved way before 2023 on our home.

Here is why the change.

“The revised code language was adopted because of the many reports of injuries and burns resulting from countertop cooking appliances tipping and spilling. From 1991 to 2020, significant injuries were reported, including many from accidentally catching on an appliance power cord while walking by, and others from children pulling on appliance cords and dumping the contents of crockpots or hot plates.”

Source:
https://blog.hubbell.com/en/wiringd...s-out-placement-of-kitchen-island-receptacles

 

[Hall]

I suppose states don’t always follow the NEC

States have nothing to do with it as pretty much all inspections are done at the local (city) or county level. The inspector could see those side-mounted outlets and say, "man, I love those on the side" and continue on. There is no legal enforcement of NEC unless the inspecting agency chooses to follow it.

 

[alarmguy]

States have nothing to do with it as pretty much all inspections are done at the local (city) or county level. The inspector could see those side-mounted outlets and say, "man, I love those on the side" and continue on. There is no legal enforcement of NEC unless the inspecting agency chooses to follow it.

I was under the impression that individual states use the national electrical code as a reference, but not necessarily as an absolute rule

Meaning, just because something is in the national electrical code, does that mean that all states or local ordinances live by that

 

[factorytuned2012]

I was under the impression that individual states use the national electrical code as a reference, but not necessarily as an absolute rule

Meaning, just because something is in the national electrical code, does that mean that all states or local ordinances live by that

yes you're correct. many local jurisdictions especially smaller towns and counties are several years behind in code.

 

[alarmguy]

yes you're correct. many local jurisdictions especially smaller towns and counties are several years behind in code.

Here is another example,

I noticed here in NC the new home builder electricians do not install a cut off switch at the outside service entrance near the electric meter. NEC calls for an emergency disconnect. Yet, when I cross the border to SC it's now standard that they do install cut off switches.

https://www.howtolookatahouse.com/B...ntial-electrical-service.html#google_vignette

Also to back up your statement there is reference to what you posted in the link above. (local jurisdictions)

Im going to check some new homes and see if they still install outlets on the sides of the counters. If I was a betting man I would say yes there will be outlets on the sides.

 

[Hall]

Meaning, just because something is in the national electrical code, does that mean that all states or local ordinances live by that

They are guidelines and the inspectors that follow them can impose the most current guidelines, ones from 2020, even ones from 2010 if they choose to. Most electricians will try to be very up-to-date though and there normally shouldn't be "conflicts". Imagine years ago where an electrician installed GFCI outlets in bathrooms and kitchens but the inspector followed code from a few years prior. The inspector will say "those aren't required" but won't make them put in standard outlets either.

 

[alarmguy]

They are guidelines and the inspectors that follow them can impose the most current guidelines, ones from 2020, even ones from 2010 if they choose to. Most electricians will try to be very up-to-date though and there normally shouldn't be "conflicts". Imagine years ago where an electrician installed GFCI outlets in bathrooms and kitchens but the inspector followed code from a few years prior. The inspector will say "those aren't required" but won't make them put in standard outlets either.

Yeah, but it’s not the electricians that make decisions. It’s local ordinances for the electrical code and plumbing code as the county has to approve electrical and plumbing, as well as framing for final CO to be issued.

 

[kschachn]

yes you're correct. many local jurisdictions especially smaller towns and counties are several years behind in code.

Or just choose to not adopt certain aspects of the national code. Many communities do not wish to burden builders and homeowners for specific things they do not regard as essential or beneficial.

 

[VersatileGuy]

Some of the newer houses I've seen don't have ceiling lights in the bedrooms which is nuts. A friend of mine lived in a home like that in high school. It drove me crazy as all you had were lamps.

No ceiling lights is the norm in older houses in Maryland

 

[factorytuned2012]

Or just choose to not adopt certain aspects of the national code. Many communities do not wish to burden builders and homeowners for specific things they do not regard as essential or beneficial.

Exactly

 

[LDM]

Chicago also known for their metallic raceways

Yep, Chicago loves to do everything in metal. Remember that from my old job when I was up there for work and the electricians for the project had to bring in all their stuff to run the wires through metal conduit. They still managed to get it all done in about the same amount of time as anywhere else that just used PVC runs though. Lots of experience doing it that way all the time since they were Chicago area electricians.

 

[factorytuned2012]

Yep, Chicago loves to do everything in metal. Remember that from my old job when I was up there for work and the electricians for the project had to bring in all their stuff to run the wires through metal conduit. They still managed to get it all done in about the same amount of time as anywhere else that just used PVC runs though. Lots of experience doing it that way all the time since they were Chicago area electricians.

A good conduit bender are like skilled artist I’m always blown away by their work. Me I’m lucky to get 90s and box offsets lol

 

[VersatileGuy]

Yep, Chicago loves to do everything in metal. Remember that from my old job when I was up there for work and the electricians for the project had to bring in all their stuff to run the wires through metal conduit. They still managed to get it all done in about the same amount of time as anywhere else that just used PVC runs though. Lots of experience doing it that way all the time since they were Chicago area electricians.

Well, rodents might play a role in triggering that policy. Harder to chew through and ruin an expensive building by fire.

 

[Hall]

Yeah, but it’s not the electricians that make decisions. It’s local ordinances for the electrical code and plumbing code as the county has to approve electrical and plumbing, as well as framing for final CO to be issued.

Yeah, it is the electricians as they will almost always follow the NEC, then maybe adapt to the local rules. Electricians rarely work in a single city so they need to follow a higher standard. Use the city of Cincinnati OH as an example and they have an inspection department. The next day they could be working in Northern Kentucky (a whole other state) with different inspectors, then in West Chester or Batavia, again with different inspectors (the names of the cities, etc aren't relevant).

Just using the topic of this thread as an example. The NEC says "no outlets on the sides of kitchen islands" so 9 out ot 10 electricians won't install them even though city "X" allows them. Electricians don't contact the inspector to ask "what revision of NEC do you require?"