Why are BMW, Mercedes Benz and Audi so expensive to fix?

[Shel_B]

Part of it is because they are luxury brands, part of it is the level of engineering that goes to them and part of it because they are less common vehicles, so the parts are less common, dealt with in less volume, so are more expensive.

I'm going to take a minor issue with that. Ford owned Jaguar and Aston Martin. and many parts in those cars were straight out of Ford's parts bin, some even had Ford part numbers and a few even had the Ford logo on them (so I've been told) But I have personally seen Ford parts in these cars.

When you bought those parts through Jaguar and through Aston Martin, you didn't pay Ford prices. You paid a lot more. Some people figured this out and bought those parts from a Ford dealer, and they worked just perfectly. So, the parts were not less common. Buying from J and AM you were paying extra markup and just plain more profit.

 

[Wolf359]

I'm going to take a minor issue with that. Ford owned Jaguar and Aston Martin. and many parts in those cars were straight out of Ford's parts bin, some even had Ford part numbers and a few even had the Ford logo on them (so I've been told) But I have personally seen Ford parts in these cars.

When you bought those parts through Jaguar and through Aston Martin, you didn't pay Ford prices. You paid a lot more. Some people figured this out and bought those parts from a Ford dealer, and they worked just perfectly. So, the parts were not less common. Buying from J and AM you were paying extra markup and just plain more profit.

I think you're referring to the X-type which was based on a Ford Contour. I had a Contour from the 90's and while it had terrible reviews I thought it was ok driving wise and thought that maybe when the X-type went down in price more I'd look into it, but then the Taurus I was driving which had the bigger Duratec engine than the Contour kept running so I never really looked into it.

 

[GMBoy]

Toyota/Lexus parts are outrageously expensive compared to most brands, Even German marques.

True - just replaced a transmission shift solenoid in a 2017 Lexus GS 350 F sport.....$357 list, my price was $311. This same simple part on a GM vehicle would be $40. Oddly enough the car came to my shop because the Lexus dealer wanted to charge her 12k for a new transmission. All it needed was that shift solenoid. Drop the pan, replace, fresh fluid in and fixed in 1hr. Car only has 54k miles.

 

[supton]

And yeah, it's perceived reliability.

Perception is reality.

Until I got my hybrid, just what was expensive to replace on my fleet? I finally got rid of my truck as I could not handle the risk of replacing the transmission if it failed. Didn’t matter how low the risk was, if it went, I was out a lot of money. Better to avoid the risk altogether.

 

[zzyzzx]

True - just replaced a transmission shift solenoid in a 2017 Lexus GS 350 F sport.....$357 list, my price was $311. This same simple part on a GM vehicle would be $40. Oddly enough the car came to my shop because the Lexus dealer wanted to charge her 12k for a new transmission. All it needed was that shift solenoid. Drop the pan, replace, fresh fluid in and fixed in 1hr. Car only has 54k miles.

Seems to me a few years ago transmission solenoids got really expensive all of a sudden.

 

[edyvw]

They basically don't have the options like keyless go, parktronic, power trunk closers, pano roofs, bixenons/active curve illuminaton, etc. Got all that on both cars. Also massage seats on one and real leather on the other. Those were all extra cost options.

Many taxi cars won’t have that, but many non-taxi like my brothers will. He has bixenon adaptive lights etc. Sure, some of those things might be an issue especially if there is small accident, but those are non issue in general.
One thing I don’t like with MB and stay away bcs. of that is integrated transmission and TC. RWD? Fine.

 

[Bailes1992]

I ran a 2020 BMW 520d M-Sport Touring for 14 months clocking up 25,000miles and I loved every minute of it. Never before have I had a car that used to make every journey feel so special. From the dealer network, to delivery, to driving it. Everything was absolutely perfect.

Every morning, I'd walk up to it on the drive with a massive smile on my face. It was just a special place to sit, even with the 'lowly' 2.0 4 cylinder diesel engine.

Unfortunately, personal circumstances and finances meant it had to go. Every 6 months I was paying out £1,000 for tyres, every other service was £800+ (you can't DIY in-warranty here), tax was £500 per year etc. It just got a bit silly. But when the second car prices sort themselves out I'll be purchasing another!

I don't know what German cars you get in America. Maybe the ones they ship to you guys are all built on a Friday afternoon? But German cars are considered very reliable on this side of the pond. Whenever you see a car with 250k+ on the clock it's always German.

My Father purchased a brand new BMW 320d in 2012 and in 5 years put 170k on the clock before trading it in for an Alfa Giulia. In that 5 years and 170,000miles we only ever did servicing, brakes and tyres. It NEVER went wrong! Nothing, nada, zilch.

 

[Wolf359]

Many taxi cars won’t have that, but many non-taxi like my brothers will. He has bixenon adaptive lights etc. Sure, some of those things might be an issue especially if there is small accident, but those are non issue in general.
One thing I don’t like with MB and stay away bcs. of that is integrated transmission and TC. RWD? Fine.

Depends what year you end up buying. I have both the older 5 speed and the 7 speed transmission. Mostly if it goes, it's the conductor plate. But part of it is people probably not changing the transmission fluid when they should be. Both of mine are still fine and on the forum it's not that common of a complaint so it's just one of those things where when the car is used up, either the engine or transmission blew up at high mileage.

 

[Wolf359]

My Father purchased a brand new BMW 320d in 2012 and in 5 years put 170k on the clock before trading it in for an Alfa Giulia. In that 5 years and 170,000miles we only ever did servicing, brakes and tyres. It NEVER went wrong! Nothing, nada, zilch.

This is why I wasn't really that worried about buying a German car. Did my research and The early 2003 Mercedes E320 were known for having bad radiator and other issues, yet there were still many people on the forums that drove that bad year and never had a problem with them. While there is some kind of failure rate, I think it's overblown in general.

 

[IndyIan]

I ran a 2020 BMW 520d M-Sport Touring for 14 months clocking up 25,000miles and I loved every minute of it. Never before have I had a car that used to make every journey feel so special. From the dealer network, to delivery, to driving it. Everything was absolutely perfect.

Every morning, I'd walk up to it on the drive with a massive smile on my face. It was just a special place to sit, even with the 'lowly' 2.0 4 cylinder diesel engine.

Unfortunately, personal circumstances and finances meant it had to go. Every 6 months I was paying out £1,000 for tyres, every other service was £800+ (you can't DIY in-warranty here), tax was £500 per year etc. It just got a bit silly. But when the second car prices sort themselves out I'll be purchasing another!

I don't know what German cars you get in America. Maybe the ones they ship to you guys are all built on a Friday afternoon? But German cars are considered very reliable on this side of the pond. Whenever you see a car with 250k+ on the clock it's always German.

My Father purchased a brand new BMW 320d in 2012 and in 5 years put 170k on the clock before trading it in for an Alfa Giulia. In that 5 years and 170,000miles we only ever did servicing, brakes and tyres. It NEVER went wrong! Nothing, nada, zilch.

In N.A. BMW, Merc, Audi, only sells their vehicles with the bigger engines and fancier trims. No stuff like a base 116i 1 series wagon here. Also a large proportion of buyers aren't really car people anyways, they just want the nice German badged transportation appliances to match their kitchen appliances... So you've got the most complex versions of the the german cars here with lots of lease buyers not really that interested in maintaining them... VW tends to be the german car here that lots of people put tons of miles on IME.

Also for years we had large simple 4 or 6 banger engine sedans with a normal automatics that just don't break as often as an AWD, twin turbo, 400 parts in a seat, german car... Also with cheaper fuel we have more people with less money commuting farther than in the UK, so if your making $35k a year here, a mid trim 1.8l Corolla gets you to 40 miles to work for less hassle and money than anything from BMW here by a country mile....

There are a few higher mileage BMW's around but not many in southern ontario.

 

[javacontour]

I think you're referring to the X-type which was based on a Ford Contour. I had a Contour from the 90's and while it had terrible reviews I thought it was ok driving wise and thought that maybe when the X-type went down in price more I'd look into it, but then the Taurus I was driving which had the bigger Duratec engine than the Contour kept running so I never really looked into it.

I believe one of the AM V-12s was that same engine (or the 3.0L version of it, doubled up to make a V12 out of it.

A little more complex than that, but not much.
But has to be (or should be) more simple than those big BMW V12 engines that were basically two inline sixes with two sets of everything. Couldn't engineer a PCM and set of sensors to run the whole thing. They had to have two sets and try to synchronize them. BMW M70 IIRC.

Just why? That's the sort of unnecessary complexity people are talking about.

 

[edyvw]

I believe one of the AM V-12s was that same engine (or the 3.0L version of it, doubled up to make a V12 out of it.

A little more complex than that, but not much.
But has to be (or should be) more simple than those big BMW V12 engines that were basically two inline sixes with two sets of everything. Couldn't engineer a PCM and set of sensors to run the whole thing. They had to have two sets and try to synchronize them. BMW M70 IIRC.

Just why? That's the sort of unnecessary complexity people are talking about.

I think there is no point talking complexity if you talk V12. M70 is legendary engine and it will still give run for the money in F1 to new supercars 35 years later.

 

[edyvw]

In N.A. BMW, Merc, Audi, only sells their vehicles with the bigger engines and fancier trims. No stuff like a base 116i 1 series wagon here. Also a large proportion of buyers aren't really car people anyways, they just want the nice German badged transportation appliances to match their kitchen appliances... So you've got the most complex versions of the the german cars here with lots of lease buyers not really that interested in maintaining them... VW tends to be the german car here that lots of people put tons of miles on IME.

Also for years we had large simple 4 or 6 banger engine sedans with a normal automatics that just don't break as often as an AWD, twin turbo, 400 parts in a seat, german car... Also with cheaper fuel we have more people with less money commuting farther than in the UK, so if your making $35k a year here, a mid trim 1.8l Corolla gets you to 40 miles to work for less hassle and money than anything from BMW here by a country mile....

There are a few higher mileage BMW's around but not many in southern ontario.

BMW still has normal automatic, actually best in business.

 

[Skippy722]

I don't know what German cars you get in America. Maybe the ones they ship to you guys are all built on a Friday afternoon? But German cars are considered very reliable on this side of the pond. Whenever you see a car with 250k+ on the clock it's always German.

My coworker, who moved to the US from Germany, has told me “They’re nothing special over there. They’re the German equivalent to GM, Ford, or Chrysler. We didn’t see them as a ‘luxury’ brand like the US does.”

 

[brianl703]

Just why? That's the sort of unnecessary complexity people are talking about.

If complexity can be measured by the thickness of a shop manual...

Then my 2013 Chevy Volt is approximately 4 times as complex as my 1988 Nissan Frontier.

 

[javacontour]

I think there is no point talking complexity if you talk V12. M70 is legendary engine and it will still give run for the money in F1 to new supercars 35 years later.

It can be both, legendary and built with unnecessary complexity.

 

[Bailes1992]

My coworker, who moved to the US from Germany, has told me “They’re nothing special over there. They’re the German equivalent to GM, Ford, or Chrysler. We didn’t see them as a ‘luxury’ brand like the US does.”

I find that hard to believe. BMW certainly manages to make even the most mundane models fun and engaging to drive. I also would find it hard to believe the dealer networks are any less than you get over here in the UK.

I drive a Vauxhall Insignia now which is the same car as the Buick Regal you get/got over there. It's a good car in it's own right. It's better specc'd than the BMW but it doesn't feel as well put together and certainly doesn't give you the same fuzzy/warm belly feeling you get with a German brand. I've also had a new niggles and minor issues with it and the dealer network here is awful and it always results in 2 or 3 visits to get anything fixed.

But then you have to consider price. I paid £40,000 for the BMW which was £16,000 discounted from the recommended on-the road price. The Vauxhall cost me £16,250 which was £13,810 discounted from the recommended on-the-road price. Both cars purchased brand new and I was the first owner. And when you consider the Vauxhall was less than half the price of the BMW and it's certainly not half the car then you have to come to the conclusion the Insignia is the better buy. It's just a shame about the GM quality, or lack there of.

Still, my financial situation has now recovered and as soon as car prices are back down to reasonable levels I'll be back in a BMW!

 

[Skippy722]

I find that hard to believe. BMW certainly manages to make even the most mundane models fun and engaging to drive. I also would find it hard to believe the dealer networks are any less than you get over here in the UK.

I drive a Vauxhall Insignia now which is the same car as the Buick Regal you get/got over there. It's a good car in it's own right. It's better specc'd than the BMW but it doesn't feel as well put together and certainly doesn't give you the same fuzzy/warm belly feeling you get with a German brand. I've also had a new niggles and minor issues with it and the dealer network here is awful and it always results in 2 or 3 visits to get anything fixed.

But then you have to consider price. I paid £40,000 for the BMW which was £16,000 discounted from the recommended on-the road price. The Vauxhall cost me £16,250 which was £13,810 discounted from the recommended on-the-road price. Both cars purchased brand new and I was the first owner. And when you consider the Vauxhall was less than half the price of the BMW and it's certainly not half the car then you have to come to the conclusion the Insignia is the better buy. It's just a shame about the GM quality, or lack there of.

Still, my financial situation has now recovered and as soon as car prices are back down to reasonable levels I'll be back in a BMW!

I think what he meant was they’re not all luxury cars and don’t carry the same “prestige” they do here in the states…. He also drives a Subaru Forester so there’s that lol.

A quick look on BMW’s German site shows you can get a 116i for €29,500 ($31,085 USD, includes tax) and it comes with steel wheels with hubcaps and cloth seats! You’d never see that here, the cheapest BMW we get is a FWD X2 at $36,395 (tax, title, registration not included) which has leather and 18” aluminum wheels with run flat tires.

I’ve never driven a BMW, but I’ve never heard bad things about the driving experience either.

 

[Pew]

I’ve never driven a BMW, but I’ve never heard bad things about the driving experience either.

They drive pretty good; linear power and good turn in. Suspension is noticeably stiffer on bumps than almost any other car I've driven stock but they rebound much nicer and faster than the suspensions on many cars. The feeling in their steering wheels are pretty light though. I also hate the engine note on all their cars except the V10; IMO they all sound more farty than a Nissan VQ.

 

[edyvw]

It can be both, legendary and built with unnecessary complexity.

I am not sure it is unnecessary.
Some tried to copy that engine and have never been able. Nothing stopped them to show V12 with similar performance and that famous simplicity.