Why are BMW, Mercedes Benz and Audi so expensive to fix?
- Thread starter jerseyguy123
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Bad assumption, majority of my experiences with driving BMWs is pre-2014. Not sure why the intake noise is "true sound." You're the only one I've ever heard say that. A Ford Escape 2.0T (2.5T?) has more intake noise than a BMW; but my disdain for the engine noise isn't squarely on BMW since there's not a single inline 6 engine noise that I like yet.
That's not saying that they're bad driving cars, just that their steering feedback is a lot lighter than I expected and doesn't really give the feedback I thought they would when out on the track, especially towards the grip limits of the tire. I also have not driven any ///M newer than 2014. The E92 M3s had an annoying rubber band clutch pedal as well, a very un-linear feel; unlike the other manual BMWs I've driven.
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edyvw
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You are the first person ever to say BMW has light steering (those with hydraulics).
The feedback on the track depends a lot on tires. Of course, non-servo steering will provide a better feel, but generally, a problem with feedback is extremely low-profile tires. BMW on later M models went different wheel sizes to allow more "meat" in the front. But, I yet to hear anyone saying that BMWs with hydraulic steering have a feedback problem.
As for the clutch, all manual BMWs come with a clutch delay valve to, well, save clutch from those that claim they know how to drive manual. It is one of the most popular modifications among those who track cars.
As for sound, intake is sound. You can manipulate exhaust sound and make crappy-sounding engines sound OK in the back.
And turbo engines will never sound like naturally aspirated engines. You can manipulate exhaust etc. but more often than not, that is noise, not sound.
Full disclosure: I have not even attempted to read the entirety of this thread. I saw the title, which immediately reminded me of some quip I heard somewhere in the past. Maybe a documentary, who knows.
Anywho: the line that stuck with me came from a BMW employee who was being interviewed. He was asked why German cars are so much more expensive than their competitors, not to mention more difficult and costly to repair. His response was more of a story than an answer, but it went something like this:
Q: "German cars are often seen as over-engineered and unreliable. Your thoughts?
A: "The German's can be a bit fastidious when designing an automobile. I recall a meeting between engineers and management regarding manufacturing costs. Particularly, the brake pedal assembly (as in the part you press with your foot). As it happens, management learned said part had not one, not even two, but FIVE coats of black paint applied. When the engineers were questioned about the need to paint a brake lever 5 times, they simply looked at one another and shrugged."
That's why German cars cost more to repair.
Anywho: the line that stuck with me came from a BMW employee who was being interviewed. He was asked why German cars are so much more expensive than their competitors, not to mention more difficult and costly to repair. His response was more of a story than an answer, but it went something like this:
Q: "German cars are often seen as over-engineered and unreliable. Your thoughts?
A: "The German's can be a bit fastidious when designing an automobile. I recall a meeting between engineers and management regarding manufacturing costs. Particularly, the brake pedal assembly (as in the part you press with your foot). As it happens, management learned said part had not one, not even two, but FIVE coats of black paint applied. When the engineers were questioned about the need to paint a brake lever 5 times, they simply looked at one another and shrugged."
That's why German cars cost more to repair.
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Alternately, engines like the M73B54 were said to have two ECMs - one for each bank - because the could not devise an ECM/ECU to run 12 cylinders at once. 7 series, first 8 series (based off a 5 series, they say.) I don't know if that is true of the engine management (Bosch? Ohhh... Bosch. Germany's Lucas) but I have heard it said that is the reason.
No idea if the Mercedes S600 of its day was like that.
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Mercedes and BMW aren't luxury brands, they're just foreign brands. Imo a Caprice Classic is more luxurious and comfortable.
Because they know people that can afford to buy those cars have enough money to get them fixed.
OVERKILL
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Eh... no. Higher end bimmer and benzes have features on them that other marques simply don't, that makes them more luxurious; those features are "luxuries".
On the comfort front, a 7-series BMW or E or S-class Benz are phenomenal.
You are probably thinking like a 328i or C-class or something. Yeah, those aren't luxury cars, they are the German equivalent of an Accord or Corolla.
Not one mb or bmw on the list...guess rich people don't mind their pockets being picked lol
https://www.caranddriver.com/research/a32871899/best-car-resale-value/
Motortrends list was pretty much the same and the dozens of other lists when I did the search didn't have an mb or bmw on it
https://www.caranddriver.com/research/a32871899/best-car-resale-value/
Motortrends list was pretty much the same and the dozens of other lists when I did the search didn't have an mb or bmw on it
OVERKILL
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Yeah, you have to question whether it is inadequate testing or just spec?
On my E39 M5, the blower resister module failed shortly after I got it. Super common, not expensive, replacement part looked absolutely nothing like the original. They had changed the part # several times, and, the design, apparently. Camshaft position sensors packed it in a while later. Of course there are four. Same thing, many different revisions between the OE part and the replacement, and it was a common failure item.
I never had any of the updated parts fail, FWIW, but maybe I just didn't own it long enough?
OVERKILL
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Bosch is nothing like Lucas. Ford's EEC-IV system (which was phenomenal) was also a Bosch system, designed in conjunction with Intel. Used all Bosch parts.
I'd speculate that since the V12 was basically two fused inline sixes and they had double of many of the sensors, that just using two ECM's and managing each bank as a separate engine was a more elegant solution than either trying to reduce the number of sensors or designing a new ECU that could handle all the multiple inputs.
OVERKILL
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But you do see Jeep, a GM SUV, several Porsche vehicles and a pile of Subarus. Mazda is nowhere on the list, yet they are apparently the 2nd most reliable brand, behind Toyota, if you take the Consumer Reports data as accurate.
Euro cars have never had good resale AFAIK. Also many, if not most of them are leased.
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Ahhh. ALL Bosch? It has been long enough, I cannot remember if my experience with L-Jetronic was positive or not.
However, Bosch not bad. Point noted.
I believe they co-opted their name for batteries as well, if they were premium in nature or were supposed to be.. Pep Boys? Or was that a different company (Robert Bosch)
OVERKILL
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Robert Bosch is Bosch.
There were reman alternators (they were actually very good) sold under the Bosch name, not sure if that's still the case. My experience with Bosch stuff has, generally, been quite good.
The reason it ran two ECU's was basically for redundancy. If you lost an entire bank (say, the crank or cam position sensor failed) then you could carry on using just the other bank.
Are they equivalent on this side of the pond? Not that wikipedia is always correct, but flipping through the page makes me think it's more performance oriented? The 3 series seems to have many variants.
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I guess I don’t consider luxuries and luxurious to be synonymous. I see luxurious as being plush and comfortable. Friend of mine owns a branded dealership and they had a few MBs, BMWs, and Porsches on their lot. Sitting next to them was a Buick. The Buick was leaps and bounds more luxurious, plush, and comfortable. The others just seemed more gimmicky.
Buy one and find out lol
