Being a VW person, I'd go with the Audi. Same engine as any GTI. lots of parts interchange. My opinion, for what it is worth, is that the Benz would be more expensive to maintain. If you are looking for "fun" why not just go for the GTI?
Used Audi or Mercedes? Sub $10000 A4s?
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Buy the least expensive (high miles) one you like with service records. A buddy does this, he manages 1-3 years for his $5500-$8k purchases and buys another. Rarely fixes them and has had s4 , s6 and ancient AMG.
They are not long term cars unless you wrench yourself.
They are not long term cars unless you wrench yourself.
In a straight line after it burns all the rubber from excessive torque steer? Yeah, until the first curve. Straight-line speed does not equal performance. My Sienna was faster in a straight line than my stick BMW that I track. It was faster also than any Miata, a staple of any track in the US. But, you ain't gonna see any Toyota on a track, except GR86, which is Subaru anyway.
Every now and then, we have a thread in which someone asks this question, and immediately, there are those who answer: "I know you are looking for a Porsche 911, but have you considered a Honda Accord? Good engine, good CVT."
Two more pages and we will have: "Yes, Corvette is good car, but let m tell you about my Camry."
^This.
If he wants FWD, GTI is better option than Audi A4. Also, EA888 in VW did not have "too" of a low-tension piston rings that consumed oil.
LOL I do remember that thread! It really did start out as a question about Porsches.
I sometimes wonder if all the Camry, Corolla and Crown Victoria posts are just coming from an automated widget.There is a track Toyota called Corolla GR….
Ah yes, the car that does not exist on track.
About 7 years ago I believe.
I agree that he should take his money and buy a NEW GTI. Use it up and sell it on down the road. They seem to hold a better residual than other VW's and are fun to drive and pretty peppy. I'm a VW guy but I am not blind to their inherent issues. I work on my own vehicles so it isn't as big an encumbrance than if you are paying for the local dealer/shop managers boat/summer home/Mexican vacations.
If you want an Audi get a B8.5, rear suspension is usually good for 200,000 miles and front will just need the lower suspension bushes at least every 5-6 years. For reliability get a manual as DSG can have issues. As others have said don’t buy a car that hasn’t had any repair work as that means it’s been left and will cost you for repairs sooner rather than later.
EA888.2 engines burnt oil as much as 1 litre every 200 miles. Fix is new pistons and rods. Also PCV needed every 60K. Timing chain tensions also have a design problem that was rectified with a later part that doesn’t fail, also chain can lengthen if oil changes are neglected.
EA888.3 did not burn oil and has better PCV that lasts twice as long. Timing chain tensioner is better design and the chain lasts better BUT the thermostat housing will be the early design so if this hasn’t been changed already budget for one with the latest part number. Coolant pump can leak at the shaft seal so if doing a thermostat might as well do the pump as it bolts to the t-stat.
Lastly, if buying an Audi, get a Quattro, the FWD have a tendency towards wheel spin pulley away using anything more than part throttle.
EA888.2 engines burnt oil as much as 1 litre every 200 miles. Fix is new pistons and rods. Also PCV needed every 60K. Timing chain tensions also have a design problem that was rectified with a later part that doesn’t fail, also chain can lengthen if oil changes are neglected.
EA888.3 did not burn oil and has better PCV that lasts twice as long. Timing chain tensioner is better design and the chain lasts better BUT the thermostat housing will be the early design so if this hasn’t been changed already budget for one with the latest part number. Coolant pump can leak at the shaft seal so if doing a thermostat might as well do the pump as it bolts to the t-stat.
Lastly, if buying an Audi, get a Quattro, the FWD have a tendency towards wheel spin pulley away using anything more than part throttle.
How I'll you use the car? Can you do your own maintenance and repairs? What is "fun"? Is it also your daily driver?
You will get answers from Camry SE to track BMWs.
Personally I wouldn't buy either, but they may work for you. Our 2006 TSX is a great car, sticks great and is reliable as it gets.
If you could find a decent one, with regular services, this might do the trick. Perform a good alignment and install a set of Michelin Pilot Sport A/S and have fun!
Are bumper dents still a mandatory option?
Over the years I drove a lot of old German cars. I used them on my 90-mile round trip commute to work, so I needed reliable transportation. It worked best for me to have a backup vehicle, which doubled as a snow car. For quite a while, it was a '95 Ford Taurus with the best winter tires I could buy. For a brief while, it was an '87 Audi 4000cs quattro.
The Audi was huge fun, but it taught me that Volks AG has great ideas and then cheaps out in crucial areas. The 2.2 five cylinder was a brilliant engine, but I did not appreciate when the front crank seal started leaking copiously with the temp at 10 below. The angel-hair wiring was an absolute joke. I could go on ...
One of my successes was a '95 BMW 540i that I bought in late 2005. It had 80K when I bought it with an Alusil engine replacement at 62K. I put 220k miles on that car, but spent many weekends keeping up with leaks and failed suspension parts. Engine mounts. Intake manifold leaks. PCV units. At 150k I rebuilt the transmission valve body. Not counting tires, the car saw the inside of a commercial garage exactly once in the nine years it served me as primary transportation.
I would say a committed DiYer with decent scanning software could make a 10-year-old European car work for them. I'm not sure a self-described "Audi noob" is prepared for that.
I probably sound like an old grouch, but I also prefer the older bimmers to newer models. And give me a 5 series over a 3 -- better build quality, usually more mature previous owners. An enthusuast friend won't touch anything newer than an E39. I have an E34 wagon in the driveway, and it may be my last BMW.
The Audi was huge fun, but it taught me that Volks AG has great ideas and then cheaps out in crucial areas. The 2.2 five cylinder was a brilliant engine, but I did not appreciate when the front crank seal started leaking copiously with the temp at 10 below. The angel-hair wiring was an absolute joke. I could go on ...
One of my successes was a '95 BMW 540i that I bought in late 2005. It had 80K when I bought it with an Alusil engine replacement at 62K. I put 220k miles on that car, but spent many weekends keeping up with leaks and failed suspension parts. Engine mounts. Intake manifold leaks. PCV units. At 150k I rebuilt the transmission valve body. Not counting tires, the car saw the inside of a commercial garage exactly once in the nine years it served me as primary transportation.
I would say a committed DiYer with decent scanning software could make a 10-year-old European car work for them. I'm not sure a self-described "Audi noob" is prepared for that.
I probably sound like an old grouch, but I also prefer the older bimmers to newer models. And give me a 5 series over a 3 -- better build quality, usually more mature previous owners. An enthusuast friend won't touch anything newer than an E39. I have an E34 wagon in the driveway, and it may be my last BMW.
This one is out of price range. But I wonder if there are other and cheaper Audis with the 3.2L & manual combo?
But... To be completely honest... I'd pick something in Japanese spectrum. Your wallet will thank you. Here is a little glimpse into VAG 2.0T engine:
Or a manual G37, like this hardtop convertible, is also in the price range.
Even a set of decent coilovers and proper tires on either of these^^ will run you cheaper than "basic" annual maintenance on any used German car. I learned that the hard way, so I'd advise a step back to reconsider a thing or few.
With that thought in mind - a coupe Accord with a 6-speed manual and a 3.5L J-series makes a lot more sense as a fun car.I know some who consider water pumps, timing chains, and turbochargers every 50k-60k a maintenance item. And stuff like failed seals/gaskets just gets brushed under a rug. While for example Honda J-series gets a stinky eye for needed a timing belt and valve adjustment once in 100k miles...
Or a manual G37, like this hardtop convertible, is also in the price range.
Even a set of decent coilovers and proper tires on either of these^^ will run you cheaper than "basic" annual maintenance on any used German car. I learned that the hard way, so I'd advise a step back to reconsider a thing or few.
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MrGraybeard has provided the best advice you will get in your lifetime about European vehicles (esp. German ones). They are the most pleasurable autos to drive...if you can afford to maintain them. The old adage that "nothing is more expensive than an inexpensive older European car" is based on fact.
If you need to "scratch the Euro itch", get a 1-2 year lease on a new Audi/BMW/Mercedes/Volvo/VW to work it out of your system. You will thank me later.
I think so. I put one into my old Camry by “accident”, didn’t realize the ice was that slick (e brake turns, about the only fun thing that car could do).
So as previous owner of VW CC with 2.0T, current owner for 11yrs of Tiguan that is 13yrs old, and Atlas, can you tell me when will my turbo chargers fail?
Also, since owning Tiguan I had vent resistor fail ($5 piece) one coil and water pump was replaced at 64k due to recall.
So, what else happened to my car that I don’t know about? For example none of my European cars ever left me or didn’t want to start in the morning bcs. bad mood. But Mazda Millenia, Toyota Sienna decided to do precisely that.
And Honda? Pesky oil pressure sensors that made me drive 100mls in safe mode 20mph an hour, potential VCM issues, timing belt, crappy brakes, and that torque steer like it is FWD from 1960’s.
So, what is basic annual maintenance on European car? I have 3. BMW is almost 150k, daily, tracked, go skiing twice a week, sees temperatures as low as -40.
I have owned more than a dozen of German cars with a turbo
charger and I never ever had to replace one single water pump,
timing chain or turbo charger.
For many years I thought Germans are notorious scaredy-pants.
Now I think Americans are even worse milquetoasts.
That let to a huge question: Why the heck Americans have such
frequent issues with European cars while (the vast majority of)
European owners obviously don't? I feel baffled . . . . .
.
They understand electricity. They just like to complicate things.
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