What plugged them if it wasn't crap from dirty oil? That's all that passes through them. Your kitchen sink doesn't clog because the water flowing through the drain is so clean.
Why 10K Miles Oil change may not be good!
- Thread starter Pelican
- Start date
This almost sounds like a design flaw of sorts. There is also to many unknowns, but BigShug681 does ask a good question. Maybe the people who really care about there cars either use good oil or change it at 5000 miles.
This Oil Squirter thing with Toyota, do all cars have this?
Read post #181 here. Various brands/wts of synthetic.
You don’t have to be an OCD BITOG person to see that there isn’t much percentage in trying to squeeze an extra 2K out of an oil change.
When I deliberately ran my F-150 down to the bitter end on the oil life monitor and UOAed, it was fine—-barely.
No way do I want to cut it that close. Since that test I use synthetic and change at the 20% mark. Around 8K.
No joke that’s absurdly complicated for a piston squirter - who do they think they are Mercedes AMG F1
So it a thermo spring that opens and closes the squirter based on oil temperature. It relies on what must be a tiny spring which varies pressure based on oil temp. Based on the patent it seems it fails closed… what could go wrong…. ?
man uses bare minimum sp only oil, finds out oil life monitor on his vehicle is accurate
more at 11
Those "oil life monitors" are ridiculous. Mine is still reading "66% oil life left". The last time I rezeroed it was 3 YEARS ago.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Depends on how "intelligent" the OLM is. The ones on our Jeep and RAM vary the interval quite significantly based on how the vehicles are driven.
Mine is on my 2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee. I would never go as long as it is telling me to. If I did, I would only be on my second or third oil change in over 7 years. It may "understand" the way the car is being driven. Distance, time, speed, and all of that.
But it has no idea what type of oil you're using. You could be putting in top of the line Amsoil Synthetic, or some Wal-Mart, bottom shelf, camels cock, chain saw brew for $5 bucks a gallon. It wouldn't know the difference.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
The OCI dictated by the OLM is based around an oil that carries the manufacturer's approval.
I'm not too concerned with "time", oil has a very long shelf life, it's the hours in service, type of service (short trips), average oil temperature...etc. that dictates when it needs to be changed.
Our RAM's OCI intervals after a flush change at 1,150km have been:
1. 14,031km (5 months, 8,718 miles)
2. 10,474km (9 months, 6,508 miles)
3. 11,673km (8 months, 7,253 miles)
4. 11,716km (10 months, 7,280 miles)
5. 9,974km (8 months, 6,198 miles)
All changed per the OLM, and, if we are being honest, pretty short intervals for M1 EP, which has been the oil of choice for every interval since the factory fill was dumped, up until this current OCI with HPL.
Just a theory;
1. Oil run too long resulting in loss of viscosity.
2. Owner of car commutes 80 miles a day. Highway cruising low RPM, low viscosity oil sheared down results in low oil pressure.
3. Outside cylinder piston squirters receive too low oil pressure to be effective. Inside two cylinders have enough oil pressure to squirt oil onto pistons.
4. Outside cylinders run hot due to lack of oil squirted on underside of pistons.
5. Piston rings on outside cylinders get gunked up and seize.
I really have no idea what's going on in those engines. The Car Care Nut has shown other engines with similar wear in the cylinders. This particular engine looks very clean on the inside. If the engine was dirty on the inside it would at least point to more of a smoking gun. The rod bearings look like new.
The piston squirters with the check valve in it may likely be the culprit. Whether from debris/gunk in the check valve or lack of enough oil pressure to open the check valve. If it was gunk in the piston squirters, why only the outside two cylinders?
Don't know what oil was used. If it was TGMO, it has a ton of VI in it. May be the culprit in the oil shearing down.
Strange that it's only the outside two cylinders. The rest of the engine looks great for 180K miles.
1. Oil run too long resulting in loss of viscosity.
2. Owner of car commutes 80 miles a day. Highway cruising low RPM, low viscosity oil sheared down results in low oil pressure.
3. Outside cylinder piston squirters receive too low oil pressure to be effective. Inside two cylinders have enough oil pressure to squirt oil onto pistons.
4. Outside cylinders run hot due to lack of oil squirted on underside of pistons.
5. Piston rings on outside cylinders get gunked up and seize.
I really have no idea what's going on in those engines. The Car Care Nut has shown other engines with similar wear in the cylinders. This particular engine looks very clean on the inside. If the engine was dirty on the inside it would at least point to more of a smoking gun. The rod bearings look like new.
The piston squirters with the check valve in it may likely be the culprit. Whether from debris/gunk in the check valve or lack of enough oil pressure to open the check valve. If it was gunk in the piston squirters, why only the outside two cylinders?
Don't know what oil was used. If it was TGMO, it has a ton of VI in it. May be the culprit in the oil shearing down.
Strange that it's only the outside two cylinders. The rest of the engine looks great for 180K miles.
Originally posted elsewhere by OVERKILL:
A low volatility oil and an engine that's in good shape results in an oil getting into the ring pack area, exiting via the oil return holes, with only a very thin film (hence, oil control rings, they CONTROL the oil on the piston/wall interface) left. Yes, some of this oil will burn in the combustion chamber, but the amount is minute, most of it should make its way back into the pan via the oil control land drainback holes.
However, higher volatility oils; oils with poor quality base oils, will flash-off/consume while in that ring pack area, leaving deposits, that eventually result in ring sticking and can also cause drainback holes to get plugged up. These are the oils where you will often see consumption, as the oil volatizes and gets consumed via the PCV.
I've posted these slides several times lately, but it sounds like they need to be posted again here:
You can see that cleanliness is directly related to better performance in deposit control,
1995 Supra Comp TS6M GT40 Pro Boss - Mobil Delvac 1 5W-40, Fleetguard LF3487
2017 can-am Outlander MAX 1000R - Mobil 1 FS 0W-40, OE Filter
2019 RAM 1500 Sport - HPL Super Car 0W-20, AMSOIL EaO11
2020 Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT - HPL Super Car 0W-40, FRAM Ultra XG2
This is the information I am looking for. What property of the oil provides this degree of high temp deposit control?
A low volatility oil and an engine that's in good shape results in an oil getting into the ring pack area, exiting via the oil return holes, with only a very thin film (hence, oil control rings, they CONTROL the oil on the piston/wall interface) left. Yes, some of this oil will burn in the combustion chamber, but the amount is minute, most of it should make its way back into the pan via the oil control land drainback holes.
However, higher volatility oils; oils with poor quality base oils, will flash-off/consume while in that ring pack area, leaving deposits, that eventually result in ring sticking and can also cause drainback holes to get plugged up. These are the oils where you will often see consumption, as the oil volatizes and gets consumed via the PCV.
I've posted these slides several times lately, but it sounds like they need to be posted again here:
You can see that cleanliness is directly related to better performance in deposit control,
1995 Supra Comp TS6M GT40 Pro Boss - Mobil Delvac 1 5W-40, Fleetguard LF3487
2017 can-am Outlander MAX 1000R - Mobil 1 FS 0W-40, OE Filter
2019 RAM 1500 Sport - HPL Super Car 0W-20, AMSOIL EaO11
2020 Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT - HPL Super Car 0W-40, FRAM Ultra XG2
This is the information I am looking for. What property of the oil provides this degree of high temp deposit control?
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
This is why M1 0W-40 has been the darling of BITOG for quite a while.
A good starting place is the Euro approvals that this oil has, they demand a very high level of performance. But, even Dave at HPL has noted that this oil surprised the heck out of him when they tested it, so it really is a phenomenal deal for what you pay for it and what it delivers.
Mobil's use of a diverse slate of base oils is a key component. The produce in-house, base oils that other mainstream manufacturers would avoid buying due to price, such as AN's and esters. This gives them a lot more flexibility and the ability to produce a product the raises the bar at roughly the same margin as their peers that will shoot for something less expensive to produce that still meets the required performance targets.
I linked this in the Dr. Rudnick thread, but I highly recommend this read on AN's:
Which is linked in this thread about Dr. Rudnick:
Leslie R. Rudnick
Rudnick was one of the key players behind the development of novel base oil blends, such as integrating AN's with PAO and POE. This approach was developed to overcome the issues with poor solubility and seal swell inherent with the use of PAO while also working to reduce the surface competition...
bobistheoilguy.com
So..... Would I be better off switching to 0W-40 M1 in my Toyota Camry, after my stash of 0W-30 M1 is gone? The coldest start I will see in an unheated garage in January is around 55 F. In this current weather it can be 95 F in my garage. So basically out here in the Summer months, there is no such thing as a, "cold start".
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
I expect Mobil uses AN's and esters in all their products, in varying degrees, so the 0W-30 is probably quite good too. I ran it in my Expedition. No, it hasn't had to jump through all the same hoops as the 0W-40, but your Camry isn't a Porsche lapping the Nurburgring either, so it's all relative.
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I’d think a 40 weight oil would bog down that 4 cylinder engine. I’d stick with a W30. And I’m a thickie
But I put 10W40 in a leaky 4 banger one time years ago (PYB) and it definitely dragged down the engine a bit.
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Thanks again. I think that the sequence lllG test is most pertinent to this thread. Assuming "high speed driving" means at least 70 MPH, and possibly higher, that would be equal to 7000 miles or more with the oil at 302° F....without an oil change.
Given the near total lack of deposits on the "pistons" this test supports my claim that something else is responsible for the engine failure, not oil change frequency.
I will say this, MAYBE changing the oil THAT WAS USED more frequently would have helped, but we don't really know what kind of usage this vehicle had.
In an earlier thread, or maybe one of the other similar posts, I said "inferior oil". This is what I meant.
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This second one you posted caught my eye, it’s not the first time I’ve seen someone post something about a long highway commute (being a negative), when we always assume it’s a positive.
I basically have this commute...80 miles round trip, daily. And up until now with my most recent car (Toyota Avalon), I have experienced oil consumption in my vehicles (2007 Lexus LS460 and a 2018 Chevy Silverado). Both while doing 5,000 mile intervals using a name brand synthetic. But this latest car (2016 Avalon) with 101,000 miles on it does not use a drop of oil doing longer drains on a 0w20 oil. I’m still contemplating 10,000 mile intervals because I just finished one and it came back excellent on my UOA using Mobil1 EP. I might do one more with the EP - currently at 2,000 miles - to 10,000 and then settle in at 7,500 or so, using whatever name brand I can get on sale. Maybe.
So.... From what I'm reading and seeing here, Mobil 1 is FABULOUS. All the other crap... Not so much. Remedy... Use nothing but Mobil 1, and change the hell out of it, along with a new filter every time....... And you won't have to deal with ANY of this crap!
Squirters failed not the oil.
Oil has nothing to do with this one.
Oil has nothing to do with this one.
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