Why 10K Miles Oil change may not be good!

Squirters failed not the oil.

Oil has nothing to do with this one.
How did they "fail"? Were they clogged with crap? If they were, then oil has everything to do with it. Especially if it was crappy oil that was allowed to remain in the engine for 10,000 miles. I'd say oil has PLENTY to do with this.

If these things are failing because of a "bad design", we would be hearing about it, and seeing this everywhere. Was there a TSB ever issued pertaining to "faulty oil squirters" in Toyota engines? He would have mentioned that. No, he didn't because there wasn't...... 10,000 mile crappy oil, you betcha.
 
How did they "fail"? Were they clogged with crap? If they were, then oil has everything to do with it. Especially if it was crappy oil that was allowed to remain in the engine for 10,000 miles. I'd say oil has PLENTY to do with this.

If these things are failing because of a "bad design", we would be hearing about it, and seeing this everywhere. Was there a TSB ever issued pertaining to "faulty oil squirters" in Toyota engines? He would have mentioned that. No, he didn't because there wasn't...... 10,000 mile crappy oil, you betcha.
I don’t understand why you continue to try to make this an oil issue, if it was an oil issue the engine wouldn’t be spotless. The squirters are under pressure so something large had to plug these since it would be rather difficult for hot flowing pressurized oil to clog them. This could have been a filter failure or even something internal coming apart that managed to plug the 2 squirters. Again if it was an oil related issue the engine would not be so clean which clearly supports the idea that at 10k mile intervals the oil being used was still doing its job. You continue to ignore everything being brought up and don’t produce any supportive argument towards this being an oil related issue other than just saying it’s the oils fault.
 
How did they "fail"? Were they clogged with crap? If they were, then oil has everything to do with it. Especially if it was crappy oil that was allowed to remain

Go back and read our post about them, and overkill’s patent link. They are not clogged they are no longer functioning as designed.

in the engine for 10,000 miles. I'd say oil has PLENTY to do with this.

And I would say you are NOT correct.
 
They are not clogged they are no longer functioning as designed.
If that was the case, and these things were failing left and right because of poor design, and destroying engines because of it, you would be hearing about it everywhere. This is the first I've heard of anyone saying these things are failing because of a, "bad design".

If a part is causing an engine to fail, it's going to be on somewhat of a large scale. It's not going to be just some one up mystery that could only be uncovered by the "experts" at BITOG, who love extended OCI's. And leaving oil filters in their engines until the asteroid hits first.

Google : "oil cooling squirters failing on Toyota engines".... And this is what you get.

https://www.google.com/search?q=oil...me..69i57.19006j0j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

There are even stories about guys removing them. Absolutely nothing about them being designed badly, and lunching engines because of it. Let alone doing it on any kind of substantial scale.

This is about crappy oil coking up inside ring grooves, and seizing piston rings in the process. Which in turn caused massive deep scoring of the cylinder walls, destroying the block in the process.

We're right back to crappy oil being left in the engine too long.
 
We're right back to crappy oil being left in the engine too long.

You’re free to go right on believing what you like.

That’s some amazing oil that goes right to 2 squirters and clogs them up while being under direct oil pressure while keeping the rest of the engine (save for the pistons that are no longer being cooled) in absolute pristine condition.

Even master you tube Toyota guru doesn’t Understand stand they have a thermo spring in them.
 
That’s some amazing oil that goes right to 2 squirters and clogs them up while being under direct oil pressure while keeping the rest of the engine (save for the pistons that are no longer being cooled) in absolute pristine condition.

That oil was so "pristine" it froze up 2 sets of piston rings with carbon and gunk, and destroyed the cylinders. You have no idea what weight or type of oil was in that engine. Only that it was left in for at least 10,000 miles... Possibly longer going by his commute mileage over time.

If he had use a top grade oil, and changed it every 4,000 or 5,000 miles, instead of 10,000 all of this crap could have been easily avoided.

And again, if these things were designed so poorly, to the point they are failing at a 50% rate in a single engine, (2 out of 4 cylinders), you would be hearing about it everywhere.... Instead nothing but crickets.
 
Oil squirters. lol Sorry, that made me laugh a little.

Alright, back to the real issue. Don't run crappy oil longer that it should be run for your engine and driving style. The weight a single video has on this determination is practically zilch, but interpret it as you will. It's your engine so do as you see fit.

Now... 14 pages later... back to the same conclusion.
 
How did they "fail"? Were they clogged with crap? If they were, then oil has everything to do with it. Especially if it was crappy oil that was allowed to remain in the engine for 10,000 miles. I'd say oil has PLENTY to do with this.

If these things are failing because of a "bad design", we would be hearing about it, and seeing this everywhere. Was there a TSB ever issued pertaining to "faulty oil squirters" in Toyota engines? He would have mentioned that.
No, he didn't because there wasn't...... 10,000 mile crappy oil, you betcha.
Even if the oil was changed with TGMO, the quality of the lube would at least be suspect. In a post made some time ago, @OVERKILL described the quality of the Toyota oil. Notwithstanding that the oil is supposedly made by Mobil, it is made to Toyota specs and @OVERKILL mentioned that thinner, lower quality, base stocks and plenty of viscosity improvers are used to create the package.

Other oils may have similar problems negating their value for use in many 10,000 mile OCIs.

One of the things that is often heard here on BITOG is that if an oil "meets the spec" it's good enough. Having spent a day at HPL listening to some real experts describe how oil is formulated, tested, and used, I now believe even more firmly that meeting the spec, at least wrt API certifications, and extending drain intervals to 10,000 miles, is just asking for trouble in the long term.

Even The Care Care Nut, who is an advocate for all things emblazoned with the Toyota logo, cautions us to keep the OCIs to 5,000 miles / 6 months if you want long-term longevity. I don't believe he's wrong about that since most people are using their cars in what may be considered "severe service" and the oil that they're using, even the oil with the latest API certs, is of minimum quality.

The oil experts at HPL (not those that work at or directly for HPL, but outside consultants) explained that in order to obtain API certification the oil must pass certain tests. However, if the oil fails the test(s), it's allowed to be tested and retested until it passes. Some API oils fail more than once until achieving a passing grade. As one of the panel asked, do you want an oil that only passes 1X out of three or four attempts?

Another interesting factoid is that some oils are formulated using waste oil. Allow me to explain (and please, if I'm mistaken on this, Dave or anyone else who was there, correct me. I'm sure I've the concept right but might be mistaken on terminology or some minor details).

After a batch of oil is processed, the tanks and equipment are cleaned by running some oil through them. This oil is called a wash, and that wash oil is purchased by some companies to use in formulating their own oil, the stuff you buy off the shelf at places like Seven-11, Walmart, and the like. In some instances, this wash isn't even treated and properly cleaned before being mixed with additives and packaged for sale. Some of you may be buying oil made in this manner if you're looking for bargain-priced oil ... or maybe not so bargain-priced.

I came away from the weekend at HPL with a deeper understanding of what goes into making a jug of oil, of how complex the formulations can be, and how, because of the way the certification process works, there's little to no incentive for a company (not all companies, and not in all instances) to produce a product that excels. Good enough is good enough.

So, if you want longevity from your engine, it seems there are a couple of options: change at reasonable intervals (less than 10,00 miles with API oils) or use higher quality oil. I guess it comes down to "you pay your money and you make your choice."
 
Oil squirters. lol Sorry, that made me laugh a little.

Alright, back to the real issue. Don't run crappy oil longer that it should be run for your engine and driving style. The weight a single video has on this determination is practically zilch, but interpret it as you will. It's your engine so do as you see fit.

Now... 14 pages later... back to the same conclusion.
We seem to agree wholeheartedly on this point.
 
You’re free to go right on believing what you like.

That’s some amazing oil that goes right to 2 squirters and clogs them up while being under direct oil pressure while keeping the rest of the engine (save for the pistons that are no longer being cooled) in absolute pristine condition.

Even master you tube Toyota guru doesn’t Understand stand they have a thermo spring in them.
I'm still wondering if it got hot (the engine) at one point. Squirters or not, it shouldn't have scoring, but it running hot for a while would cause both issues. This was compounded by the two blocked squirters. There is clearly more to this story than what we've seen, yet plenty of conclusions are being drawn. I would also have liked to see a teardown of those squirters to understand why they stopped working. Were they plugged by stuff that bypassed the filter? Did the valving mechanism itself lock up?

Even if this was a widespread parts failure, most engines with these devices aren't going to get hot enough for it to matter. Keeping the underside of the pistons cool is only beneficial under high heat and load. Heck, most engines don't have them, even engines that are tracked.
 
......... Even if this was a widespread parts failure, most engines with these devices aren't going to get hot enough for it to matter. Keeping the underside of the pistons cool is only beneficial under high heat and load. Heck, most engines don't have them, even engines that are tracked.
This.

While these coolers are designed to help keep piston temperatures down, I doubt they are THAT critical under normal driving conditions.

It's far more important to use high quality oil, and change it frequently. Who knows what kind of crap oil was being run in that engine.
 
Realize, too, that a premium, full synthetic, ”better” oil would be LESS LIKELY to coke up the rings even if the cooling nozzles failed (which I believe weren’t helped by “just good enough” oil-probably conventional/blend run long distances at highway speeds). This isn’t an exotic, turbo- or supercharged engine, running track days-it’s just proof that, just maybe, cheap dealer bulk oil pushed to the limit is NOT a good idea!
 
And this is why I mentioned how Ford’s Premium Care oil changes, even at 5000 mile intervals, were NOT GOOD ENOUGH for an overloaded, urban highway driven, cargo van-even switching to MaxLife red bottle 5W20 blend made a difference.
 
And this is why I mentioned how Ford’s Premium Care oil changes, even at 5000 mile intervals, were NOT GOOD ENOUGH for an overloaded, urban highway driven, cargo van-even switching to MaxLife red bottle 5W20 blend made a difference.
Would you be kind enough to post a link to where you made those comments about the premium care of Motorcraft oil. I'd like to hear and read what you had to say. Thank you
 
I believe there are a couple of issues. Issue one is unknown oil quality.Second is the piston jets do not work without adequate oil pressure. Hot thin oil may have resulted in outside cylinder jets stopping before the inside jets After a long hard run and a stop light or a Starbucks drive through is reached. Becaus I am sure I have read in Toyota engine manuals that the jets are designed to shut down when oil pressure is to low. No flow and a hot engine can create deposits.

the reason I bring up oil quality being unknown Is how most regular vehicles are treated. . I am currently driving a rental highlander. My Tacoma is in the body shop I was rear ended by an f250 In June.

the highlander was last serviced at a quick lane in Burlington IA. the Label just says return at 49569 miles…I do t have any idea what grade they used, what interval they put it in for, (3,5,10k?). The vehicle has 55534 miles. The oil level is fine. They seem to be keeping this these rentals longer than before. It’s quite possible it’s way over 10,000 miles on an unknown oil they could’ve put anything in it. How many leases and even personal vehicles are treated this way? I empored a coworker to get her Jeep grand Cherokee oil changed after 25K that she had put on it since she bought it (used)without changing the oil, she didn’t Think it was a big deal. And if she put it on the market today it would probably go for more when she paid for it.

Folks who are following the factory interval and using Minimum specifications are babying them compared to average. I have done a few 10k intervals on Kirkland 5W 30 I’ve also done a few on M1 0w40. All that didn’t prevent me from hitting a deer one week and two weeks later getting rear ended by Ford F250 in the month of June. Which Really sucks I paid it off within 6 months and plan to to keep for another 200,000 miles. My truck goes in the repair on Monday and can take 4 to 6 weeks to get it back so I have to deal with this basket case Highlander I’ve had since The start of July. (It rides better than my Tacoma but it feels like a grocery cart compared to my RX350)
I do like using 0W 40 better than Kirkland 5w30 because it gives me the warm and fuzzies but I don’t think it’s that important thing to worry about nor are 10,000 mile intervals that are mostly rural or highway. Notice I don’t use 0W 20 regardless because I have read about the oil jets stopping in low oil pressure (Long highway run and run into a traffic jam in 110:degree heat situation).
 
I believe there are a couple of issues. Issue one is unknown oil quality. Second is the piston jets do not work without adequate oil pressure. Hot thin oil may have resulted in outside cylinder jets stopping before the inside jets After a long hard run and a stop light or a Starbucks drive through is reached.

Notice I don’t use 0W 20 regardless because I have read about the oil jets stopping in low oil pressure (Long highway run and run into a traffic jam in 110:degree heat situation).

This makes perfect sense... And is yet another good reason to RUN, not walk away from 0W-16 oil, and 10,000 mile oil changes in modern Toyota's. Especially in very hot, triple digit climates.
 
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This.

While these coolers are designed to help keep piston temperatures down, I doubt they are THAT critical under normal driving conditions.

It's far more important to use high quality oil, and change it frequently. Who knows what kind of crap oil was being run in that engine.
In the Toyota d4d if they get glogged you have melted Pistons has a resultat, its a common issue and are often related with to long oci or poor engine oil quality
 
In the Toyota d4d if they get glogged you have melted Pistons has a resultat, its a common issue and are often related with to long oci or poor engine oil quality
I don't think I would go as far as to say that it would melt pistons. But with that said, it stands to reason they did it because their engineers saw it as some type of a requirement in certain demanding driving situations.

Either way, it is not something that should be tested or pushed by using lower quality lubricants, then exacerbating the situation by pushing the potential damage further, by going with long oil change intervals.
 
In the video he says the engine started burning a quart every 1000 miles or so at something just over 100000, then was up to some ridiculous amount like 3qts per 1000 by 180000. Driving it with stuck rings for 60-80 thousand miles scored the cylinders, no oils could overcome that.

Toyota designs this overly complicated piston cooling squirter tha is oil temp and pressure dependent, clearly they think it’s critical, so you cannot just say it won’t matter. Guru dude says they are always plugged ( review patent and advise problem with this statement). No oil will survive over temp pistons with bad rings.

While I agree we may not (and will never) have the whole story… in order to blame the oil we have to ignore the rest of the engine.

There is absolutely no evidence that a different oil or thicker viscosity or more frequent changes would have changed anything
 
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