Who's the current main-stream favourite for 5w40 applications (high temp/shear)

Did you just say that the winter rating is not a viscosity?!
It *is* viscosity rating run a different temperature, 40c iirc and 100c for the second number. They're, annoyingly, different scales though.
 
Did you just say that the winter rating is not a viscosity?!
It *is* viscosity rating run a different temperature, 40c iirc and 100c for the second number. They're, annoyingly, different scales though.
No, it isn't. It's a set of limits, defined by two tests.

Here's J300, in case you missed it being posted the 4,000 previous times I've shared it, you'll note there is no maximum viscosity defined for any of the Winter ratings, they are defined by CCS and MRV, which are viscosity LIMITS. Ergo, your 0w-40 could have a CCS visc of 3,200cP, or it could have one of 6,100cP, as long as it is below the 6,200cP limit at -35C, it gets to be a 0w-40.

If we are being pedantic, the SAE grade isn't a viscosity either, it's a series of RANGES of given viscosities at 100C, which an oil slots into.
SAE J300 - Current.png


The 40C visc never enters the picture, that's used, primarily, to determine the Viscosity Index of the lubricant. The narrower the spread, the higher the VI.
 
Ok I'll give you the limits rating, but it's still a guaranteed max viscosity if you look at it that way, it's for definition of a cold cranking rating so needs a cap on its viscosity.
I'll also give you the pedantry because that's true and something most don't know about, but at a high level, the SAE number is referring to a viscosity, if only a bracket of viscosity.
 
Ok I'll give you the limits rating, but it's still a guaranteed max viscosity if you look at it that way, it's for definition of a cold cranking rating so needs a cap on its viscosity.
Yes, it's a pair of maximums, set at different temperatures, depending on the Winter rating in question. Cold Cranking is usually the one that sets the rating, since the limit is a lot lower than for MRV.

Of course, unlike the non-Winter SAE grade, it is open-ended on the other side, there's no minimum CCS or MRV, just maximums.

Thing is, while it is limited by a viscosity value, the Winter rating itself is not a viscosity (per your initial questioning of my statement). Rather, it's a performance target, defined by CCS and MRV, which of course both have viscosity limits, but these just work to define the bounds or parameters for our grade/rating.

That's why I worded my statement the way I did :)
I'll also give you the pedantry because that's true and something most don't know about, but at a high level, the SAE number is referring to a viscosity, if only a bracket of viscosity.
The 100C ranges that define the non-Winter grades are definitely a lot narrower, but are still ranges. I like your use of "bracket" there, that's a good description.

The funny part is, if you look closely at J300, you'll see significant overlap between 8, 12, 16 and 20. Of course that whole range used to be 20 before these thinner oils were introduced. 20 has a floor of 5.6cSt, and 8 has a ceiling of 6.1cSt, what sets them apart then, is the HTHS visc at 150C (yet another parameter not captured in the Winter ratings) and why things get a bit weird down in that area.

That's why I think it's important that people understand that these aren't firm numbers; aren't a given and fixed viscosity, but rather a category, range, or as you said, bracket; a spectrum if you will, and your oil could be dead in the middle or on either end depending on how it was blended. The Euro xW-40's tend to be on the low end, while the HD xW-40's tend to be on the upper end. HTHS tends to track that way with those oils as well, with the Euro lubes being closer to 3.5 and the HD's being up around 4.
 
Ever wondered why they test at 100c when oil temps in a running engine is higher?
I've always assumed it's a nice round number and the temperature water boils at as well as historically being a common coolant target temp. Perhaps there's more to it than that? but I've never though much about it. HTHS is 50C higher due to those conditions happening in bearings, where temperature is much higher than bulk sump.
 
Yeah, that's about the reasons I got, but oil temperature is higher by a good margin, so it would make more sense to me if oil was tested\rated at temperatures it's used at :D
 
Yeah, that's about the reasons I got, but oil temperature is higher by a good margin, so it would make more sense to me if oil was tested\rated at temperatures it's used at :D
Depends on the vehicle of course. My oil temp hovers around coolant temp due to my coolant/oil heat exchangers on both vehicles. Even towing, our 1500 stays right around coolant temp.
 
I like how you have those gauge options in your vehicles, i haven't had it with a real readout for some time - however it do find it a little odd it's so low, 115c is (i thought) more common. Of course that's got to be a variable depending on driving conditions as well as ambient.
 
I look for porsche a40 and mb 229.5 for my 40 wt needs, maybe that might be something the op could look into as they are high performance characteristic oil certifications.
 
Yeah, that's about the reasons I got, but oil temperature is higher by a good margin, so it would make more sense to me if oil was tested\rated at temperatures it's used at :D
Most of my vehicles run normal driving oil temps at 200-220F. Close enough to 100C. Besides, it's just a defined hot viscosity test point. If it was defined as 105.8 C, then some guys would be saying "Why isn't it at a nice even number like 100C?"

Some good high level info.
https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/411/oil-viscosity
 
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This article gives some good info too.

"Studies of actual operating temperatures have shown that 40 degrees C (104 degrees F) is suitable for most industrial lubricant classifications. Likewise, automotive industry studies have concluded that 100 degrees C (212 degrees F) is the industry’s average operating temperature for crankcase oils."

https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/29756/industrial-engine-oil
 
I like how you have those gauge options in your vehicles, i haven't had it with a real readout for some time - however it do find it a little odd it's so low, 115c is (i thought) more common. Of course that's got to be a variable depending on driving conditions as well as ambient.
You can see ambient in both pics :)

Truck was doing 60Mph in that pic with a trailer on, if it is in town coolant will get up similar to what you see for the Jeep (that pic was in town, with higher ambient). I'm really impressed with how effective the heat exchangers are though.
 
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