Patman
Staff member
The problem with OEM is that a lot of them are just rock catchers.
Who makes Mobil 1 filters now ?
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This is a rock catcher. It is good at catching pretty small rocks and chunks of metal from my experience. From a 1500cc VW Beetle:
The oil filters being regularly labeled "rock catchers" on BITOG are nothing like this. On BITOG the term is being used by some as a derogatory name for some oil filters, which I think violates the rules of this forum.
Note that the M1 has different media than its Purolator competition (Boss and PurolatorOne), even though they are all made by Purolator:
Patman
Staff member
Calling a poor filtering oil filter a rock catcher is not a violation of the rules of this forum…
“Rock catcher” is just a term for an inefficient filter. It’s not directed at any particular brand.
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Are they really though? Are we seeing engine failures in vehicles that have seen dealership oil changes with OEM filters used over their entire service life?
Patman
Staff member
Just because we aren’t seeing engine failures doesn’t mean that those poorly filtering filters aren’t a problem. For instance, Toyota OEM filters are known for being inefficient and there are certainly a lot of long lasting Toyotas, but at the same time there are a lot of old oil burning Toyotas as well. Perhaps a better filter would have had a different result.
And there is no negative impact whatsoever from using a more efficient oil filter (other than the higher cost) So why not use it?
BrendanC
$100 site donor 2024
not going to start another argument. use M+H products if you’d like. i simply represented facts and provided a viable alternative that we’ve yet to see issues out of.Note that the M1 has different media than its Purolator competition (Boss and PurolatorOne), even though they are all made by Purolator:
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The oil burning Toyotas are due to design flaws though. The 1ZZ for example had piston drain holes that were too small to allow adequate flow, causing oil to bake in them and clog the holes solid. Those issues aren't related to filter efficiency.
I'm not against higher efficiency filters, as I have usually sought them out myself. I'm just saying, just because "better" exists, doesn't mean that the baseline OEM option is a "rock catcher" that should be discredited when in reality it's fine.
No argument intended. I very much appreciate the facts and discoveries you are providing, as I am sure many other BITOG readers do. I was just attempting, perhaps clumsily, to add to your report some details I had discovered, and thought would be of interest to the BITOG readers, in case someone thought that the M1 filter was just a rebranded M+H or Purolator and had the identical strengths and weaknesses.
Inefficient oil filters don't cause engine damage that leads to an engine failure ... but a filter that fails certainly could depending on how it fails. Low filtration could however result in more long term engine wear and degrade the mechanical health of the engine faster. Never seen any study that shows less engine wear results with dirtier oil, but have seen many studies that conclude that cleaner oil results in less wear. That would hold true for any machine that uses lubrication between the moving parts - keeping debris out of the lubrication helps prevent and reduce 3rd body abrasives wear (ie, wear caused by debris getting smashed and smeared between moving parts).
As mentioned many times, it's the oil cleanliness level and how long it's been ran that correlates to the level of wear. The longer the OCI, the more beneficial a higher efficiency filter will be. If oil was changed every 1000 miles, the filter wouldn't need to be very efficient - ie, a "rock catcher" would do. If someone is running 10,000+ OCIs, a higher efficiency filter is going to be more beneficial by keeping the oil cleaner over that long OCI.
As mentioned many times, it's the oil cleanliness level and how long it's been ran that correlates to the level of wear. The longer the OCI, the more beneficial a higher efficiency filter will be. If oil was changed every 1000 miles, the filter wouldn't need to be very efficient - ie, a "rock catcher" would do. If someone is running 10,000+ OCIs, a higher efficiency filter is going to be more beneficial by keeping the oil cleaner over that long OCI.
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Lots of M+H made filters have shown to tear media ... regardless of what brand sticker is on the can. If filters were tearing, and there was no brand on the can, people would want to know who's making them. In the end, M+H is responsible for all the products under their umbrella, regardless of how it's branded.
You don't think that Mobil sourced the media, and then outsource the manufacturing to M+H? If not, why do the specs differ between the Mobil product and comparable M+H products? Do you know for a fact that this is really an M+H product in all respects for which M+H is only renting the Mobil logo sticker copyright and trademark from Mobil? That would be an interesting insight. If so, what is your source for that information?
Similarly, is Premium Guard just a logo sticker copyright and trademark rental company for Vietnam Advanced Filtration? Amsoil a logo sticker copyright and trademark rental company for Fram? Or are these elite brands actual product companies that are doing their own investment, sourcing, research, development, marketing, distribution, etc. and just outsourcing the manufacturing?
BrendanC
$100 site donor 2024
look at C&P’s identical guts, can, ADBV and base plate
What is the efficiency of the Mobil 1 these days? I highly doubt anyone who hires a company like M+H to make oil filters for them actually buys and supplies their own media to them. They may obviously be involved in specifying what the efficiency, holding capacity, flow dP vs flow characteristics, etc th filters should meet and work with M+H, Champ Labs, Premium Guard, etc who actually makes the filters and slaps on the brand name.
M+H = Purolator = Mobil 1 all the way on this Mobil 1 with torn media. Even uses the flat spiral bypass spring and has a Purolator format date code, and pops off the metal end cap like a Purolator.
Posted a failed 212A a few months ago from a buddy's silverado. This M1 212A is off another buddy's 14 Ford Explorer 3.5L V6 naturally aspirated.
Never held anything against these filters just bought them because my other favorite wasnt available at the time.
I'm glad this was a short change and not a 20k run on this filter.
Never held anything against these filters just bought them because my other favorite wasnt available at the time.
I'm glad this was a short change and not a 20k run on this filter.
"Amsoil logo sticker copyright and trademark rental company for Fram"? When did Amsoil and Fram get together?
What does "copyright and trademark rental company" even mean? Like said, companies like M+H, Champ Labs, Premium Guard, etc are parent companies that are hired to make filters under some other brand. Like the Carquest Premium is made for AAP by Premium Guard. AAP use to have their filters made by Purolator at one time, maybe before M+H bough Purolator.Everyone here on BITOG could pool all their money together and hire M+H, Champ Labs, Premium Guard or whoever to make oil filters to our specs and slap on whatever brand name we came up with for the BITOG super filter.
The terms "highly doubt" and "What does copyright and trademark rental company even mean?" means you don't have a clue on this subject. You are just operating off of your imagination, not facts. Too bad - I was hoping for some insights, not emojis.What is the efficiency of the Mobil 1 these days? I highly doubt anyone who hires a company like M+H to make oil filters for them actually buys and supplies their own media to them. They may obviously be involved in specifying what the efficiency, holding capacity, flow dP vs flow characteristics, etc th filters should meet and work with M+H, Champ Labs, Premium Guard, etc who actually makes the filters and slaps on the brand name.
M+H = Purolator = Mobil 1 all the way on this Mobil 1 with torn media. Even uses the flat spiral bypass spring and has a Purolator format date code, and pops off the metal end cap like a Purolator.
Posted a failed 212A a few months ago from a buddy's silverado. This M1 212A is off another buddy's 14 Ford Explorer 3.5L V6 naturally aspirated.
Never held anything against these filters just bought them because my other favorite wasnt available at the time.
I'm glad this was a short change and not a 20k run on this filter.
"Amsoil logo sticker copyright and trademark rental company for Fram"? When did Amsoil and Fram get together?
Everyone here on BITOG could pool all their money together and hire M+H, Champ Labs, Premium Guard or whoever to make oil filters to our specs and slap on whatever brand name we came up with for the BITOG super filter.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
AMSOIL no longer sources the Donaldson media for the EaO, they are a product wholly produced by Champ now, the same as the RP. It's doubtful that any of them are any different in construction at this point.
What are you talking about - think you're the one who doesn't have a clue. You have solid evidence (and not your imagination) that Mobil buys and supplies filter media to M+H? Like said, I highly doubt that's the case unless you can give solid proof that's the case - until then I'm sticking with highly doubt it. Do some self research if you need the answer, or contact Mobil and M+H and ask them. Yes, I can dish it right back when someone starts with the personal attacks - your bold part above ^^^, off the edge. I asked you what does "copyright and trademark rental company" even mean to you? Doesn't really make any real sense, so what's that mean in your mind. I think you're the one who doesn't really understand how anyone can contract a big filter making company like Fram, M+H, Champ Labs, Premium Guard, etc to make filters for them under the brand they want on the can actually works. Even Fram hires Champ Labs (and other companies for some filter models, mostly cartridge filters) to make filters with the Fram name on them.
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