Who gets Propane for $1.063/gallon?

[Willy_G]

http://usepropane.com/why/value

The Propane Council is running their annual Fall “Propane is cheaper that the Sun” ad campaign. I would have to disagree with their general message as LNG, Propane and natural gas are set for a 70% increase this heating season?

I see these commercials walking the line of false advertising…but I guess they really aren’t selling anything, just “informing”.

For the first time ever, I bought a house with a heat pump, 3 years ago. Always gas or oil in the past. The electric heat costs me ½ what I paid to heat my previous house with gas. The gas house was 1/3 smaller than the electric house (windows and insulation are comparable), too! My electric provider even raised rates last year and I came in much lower than the gas house!

I do HATE the heat pump, as I am on the northern fringe of where they operate well during winter. But I would have to say that electricity pricing is much more stable than gas & propane. And in a well insulated house, electricity is a better value…south of Canada.

Anyone else have any input or opinions?

 

[kenw]

in your previous house, were you using nat'l gas or propane heat ?

 

[Willy_G]

The old house was natural gas, which I understand is a bit cheaper than propane.

 

[kenw]

I would dare say you must have some subsidies (TVA is an example) or price controls in effect for electricity to be that much cheaper than nat'l gas, even after the hit that is supposedly coming up. Or some technical problem with the gas heater?

personally I love heatpumps and would have one if we didn't have nat'l gas heat. Houston won't stress the heating side too much! I guess if NG gets too far out of hand we could always install one.

But even with our mild winters and extreme summers, our nat'l gas bills typically run only 20% of the summer electric bills. (Meaing that our summers are probably comparable to your winters)

Speaking of heatpumps, did you know you can also heat your domestic hot water with it?

 

[Al]

At 2 bucks a gallon Propane is still more expensive than resistance heat. Noone gete propane for a buck a gallon.

 

[Willy_G]

quote:

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No one gets propane for a buck a gallon.

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That is more my point than my loose elec. vs. nat'l gas comparison. I can't believe the Propane Council is making the claims they are making, during this volatile period of energy supply.

FYI, last year I did a study. My heat pump was more efficient if I just ran the toaster, below ~20F! I believe the big savings comes by eliminating the defrost mode, when it switches back to AC, pulling heat out of the house, to thaw the condenser. Not too smart in my climate, if you ask me.

Like I said...I am on the northern limit of where heat pumps should be used for primary heat. TX is a GREAT place for a heat pump...not central & northern Indiana.

 

[kenw]

Our normal design ran the defrost mode without turning on the inside blower so that it really didn't cool much air, and I believe (it's been a few years) that even on the large commercial units (15t-50t) they didn't run in defrost for more than a minute or even less. Without the inside blower running, it deosn't take long to heat that outside coil!

we did have a commercial customer using a bunch of our water-water heatpumps to heat chrysanthemum greenhouses on the UP of michigan.

 

[Willy_G]

I forgot to say that I took the model #s of the condenser & air handler to a local HVAC shop to do some 'comparison shopping' this past summer. It turns out my contractor installed a piece of junk unit...I should have asked a lot more questions or upgraded when the house was built. I am waiting for the compressor to to die, AGAIN (now out of warranty), to replace the entire system.

 

[michaelc80]

We locked our propane in this summer at somewhere around $1.40 (maybe a little less-I don't remember the exact number). Compared to the natural gas users around here we are similar if not a little less. If there is a spike in the price of natural gas this winter we'll be a lot less.

I would never buy on a pay-as-you-go system. I remember one guy did that last year and was paying $1.80+ during peak season.

 

[Willy_G]

I know propane ran short a couple years in Indiana, when an Ohio firm (Level Propane) secured a bunch of contracts then went belly-up half-way into the heating season. People were paying over $2/gallon (short-term delivery), if I remember correctly, plus having to have a tank from a new supplier set & plumbed, etc... Some less fortunate didn't have money to buy 'other' propane and did without! It was a mess.

 

[Al]

quote:

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Originally posted by michaelc80:
We locked our propane in this summer at somewhere around $1.40 (maybe a little less-I don't remember the exact number). Compared to the natural gas users around here we are similar if not a little less. If there is a spike in the price of natural gas this winter we'll be a lot less.

I would never buy on a pay-as-you-go system. I remember one guy did that last year and was paying $1.80+ during peak season.

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Going rate is about $2.40 this year unless you own your own tanks.

 

[kenw]

Yeah, you have to watch them. Our builder-installed 5 ton unit (forget the brand, cooling only), tho) is still going strong and we estimate it is approaching 20 years. My parents' 1st central unit (Coleman) went 30 years in San Antonio heat.

When we replace it we would like to go to 2 units since our upstairs is now mostly vacant. neighbors who have done it paid upwards of 10k for the priviledge (2 complete units, plus new ducting to split the old) At 10k I don't think we can justify it even with Houston summers.

 

[Willy_G]

$2.40 - $1.063 = $1.33 more per gallon

I think the Propane Council needs to adjust their reasoning!

 

[Pablo]

quote:

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The electric heat costs me ½ what I paid to heat my previous house with (natural) gas. The gas house was 1/3 smaller than the electric house (windows and insulation are comparable), too!

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I am not believing this for one minute. Either you've got some really cheap electricity or your house is way more chilly! Let me put it this way - that simply does not compute here!

I agree on the propane stuff......

 

[Willy_G]

I do believe that my electric provider is one of the lowest in the country. Heating ~2000sf with my heat pump cost about $300. The old gas house was ~1000sf and ran about $500 to heat per season, and that was from the mild '01-'02 winter.

Ok, maybe my ball-park figures were off. 1/2 the square footage, and 1/3 more money.

I might be getting a better-than-normal electric rate, for being all electric (I'll check this out). But if I even double my electric heat bill, it is still less per sf than the smaller gas house??? Maybe I just worry about too much!

 

[Pablo]

Hey if it works don't mention it to your electric utility - they have ways of adjusting your bill

 

[Bob Woods]

Heating ~2000sf with my heat pump cost about $300. The old gas house was ~1000sf and ran about $500

Sounds more like your new house has better insulation than the old one.

 

[Bret Chase]

here it'd be $500 a month to heat w/ electricity... CMP charges about $0.14 a kw/hr (well, last year they did). I do so miss the TVA sourced cheap power I had in SE Kentucky. Fortunately in this complex, everything except phone and cable is included in the rent so I'll not feel the heating pinch this winter. if I had to put in a system I'd go propane, but that's because I can draw on my dad's 10,000gal/month buying clout and get a better price.

 

[michaelc80]

quote:

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Originally posted by michaelc80:
We locked our propane in this summer at somewhere around $1.40 (maybe a little less-I don't remember the exact number). Compared to the natural gas users around here we are similar if not a little less. If there is a spike in the price of natural gas this winter we'll be a lot less.

I would never buy on a pay-as-you-go system. I remember one guy did that last year and was paying $1.80+ during peak season.

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I need to correct my post. I just got home and checked (out of curiosity). It was $1.19 that we locked in at in August.

 

[Beast of Busco]

I am locked in by my local REMC for $1.54 a gallon until April 2006. It is more than the $1.29 I paid last year, but at least REMC has worked to keep the cost as low as possible.

During the 4 years that they have provided this service, my REMC's price has been less than most propane providers in this area, unless of course you spent the big $$ and own your own tank!

My father-in-law recently got his propane for $1.46 a gallon, but he had to pre-pay for 600 gallons to get it.