I’ll go along with that.
Mobil Delvac Super FE 10W30 FE-4/SN
40C 64
100C 9.8
Hths 3.1 suggests very little if any VII
Which NO-VII Oil would you recommend?
- Thread starter rwn
- Start date
Mobil Delvac Super FE 10W30 FE-4/SN
40C 64
100C 9.8
Hths 3.1 suggests very little if any VII
I normally would agree with you, but Redline HP 5W-20 has nearly identical specs and an HTHS of 3.1. It's high but not out of the realm of possibility I suppose.
Great oil, but is it Dexos 1 gen 3?
That’s the specification about which the OP was concerned.
The beauty of HPL’s selection of mPAO as a part of the No VII base oil blend is the ability to create a lightweight motor oil that still has a high HTHS viscosity.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/metallocene-pao-mpao-verses-conventional-paos-cpao.317168/
Nope. I just used that oil to illustrate the relationship between KV100C and hths.
With no VMs, the viscosity @ 150C and hths should be the same.
A cautionary tale and it hasn’t been mentioned, with no viscosity loss over the drain interval from shear, it’s important that the evaporation losses (noack) are very low so the engine oil doesn’t thicken out of grade with a corresponding loss of winter grade.
Edit: I believe 0W20 and 5W30 are the only two grades that meet D1 G3.
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That's not how that works. Density goes down with temperature, viscosity goes down with temperature. The dynamic viscosity of an oil is it's kinematic viscosity multiplied by it's density. The kinematic viscosity of that oil at 150°C is 3.7cSt. Multiplied by it's density we get get 3.19cP but that's not adjusted for the loss in density at 150°C, which can be another 15%. So 2.7 ish is the realistic range. If there were any VII there would be shear thinning on top of that.
I am hoping to hear from the experts, the ones at HPL, but I would like to retract my earlier statement about the D1G3 being applicable to all the oils.
Only the NO VII oils are D1G3. The rest are D1G2. Slight differences in additive chemistry.
So, in light of that - @rwn - I would go with the 5W30 NO VII. We have a member on here, @Sam_Julier, who has run this oil in his Volvos during some very cold Vermont winters. Similar conditions to those you will encounter in Colorado.
That is based on your Dexos 1 Gen 3 requirement.
But in looking up your owner’s manual (curiosity, morning coffee, time to indulge), for a 2021 GMC Sierra, it says you need a Dexos 1 Gen 2. Please see this screen shot:
So, I would suggest that you could use any of the 0W20 in HPLs product line (or go wild and use an 0W30) and get both your specification, and cold weather concerns, met.
It does not appear that you need a D1G3, which frees up your selection considerably.
Only the NO VII oils are D1G3. The rest are D1G2. Slight differences in additive chemistry.
So, in light of that - @rwn - I would go with the 5W30 NO VII. We have a member on here, @Sam_Julier, who has run this oil in his Volvos during some very cold Vermont winters. Similar conditions to those you will encounter in Colorado.
That is based on your Dexos 1 Gen 3 requirement.
But in looking up your owner’s manual (curiosity, morning coffee, time to indulge), for a 2021 GMC Sierra, it says you need a Dexos 1 Gen 2. Please see this screen shot:
So, I would suggest that you could use any of the 0W20 in HPLs product line (or go wild and use an 0W30) and get both your specification, and cold weather concerns, met.
It does not appear that you need a D1G3, which frees up your selection considerably.
I’ve reached out to my contacts at HPL to confirm. The initial response was “if it’s on the spec sheet, that’s what was measured,” but I will post the official response once they’ve confirmed.
Remember these are not the typical base oils we’re used to dealing with. They’re using the best materials regardless of price, and there have been many new developments even in just the past few years for synthesized lubes. Some of these have not shown up in any commercial lubes yet.
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IIRC, from my discussion with David, it's the use of the extremely high VI mPAO that changes the behaviour, as this base acts, and is treated, like a VM.
For example, the SpectraSyn Elite 65 has a VI of 179 (and the 150 is 210), so its visc curve is markedly different from the rest of the base oil blend. When used in an additive fashion, one ends up with non-standard results.
It's my understanding that you won't get accurate results using a visc calc in this scenario.
Somebody else mentioned Redline 5W-20 as another example. It has an HTHS of 3.1, but using your calculation, it should be 2.9. This oil does not claim to be VII-free.
Anyway, David can probably explain it better, so hopefully he'll chime-in.
I would trust the data that they (HPL) published over an extrapolation of how a typical oil performs - that is, taking a 100C value and determining a value at a different temperature.
With different base stocks and different additives than a typical oil, the extrapolation simply does not work.
So, the relationship between the two numbers for a typical oil cannot be applied to this oil or this instance.
Why not ask @High Performance Lubricants as this is the only outlier in the entire table. I trust HPL, but I also trust typing errors can be made.
If you read the thread, you’d see I’ve already reached out to HPL Plant Manager to confirm in writing, but already got the verbal confirmation of “if it’s on the spec sheet, it’s what was measured”.
As some have pointed out, HPL is not using the lubricants you’re used to seeing and generating theoretical numbers from.
It won't be cold 24/7/365 in OK.
Oklahoma = 10w-30 PCMO.
Oklahoma = 10w-30 PCMO.
One slight modification: if it’s not an oil burner, the Euro oils are a little more robust and there’s no downsides to running it. Keep the 10w30 grade. As an added benefit, one will likely be able to extend the oil changes a little longer because of the chemistry involved.
Did you see the post where he goes to Pagosa Springs, CO and sees -15F?
Do you plan for "So maybe -15 degrees, worst case." or what the vehicle will see the majority of the rest of the time?
I see others also agree on Oklahoma = 10w-30 PCMO.
Lovely hot springs, I would just park nearby and soak. The fart smells go away after awhile.
The OP specifically expressed a concern about cold starts in Colorado. He even specified the town.
The recommendations that ignore that specifically-expressed consideration fail to answer the original question.
I’m not on board with the no VII movement when cold start performance is critical.
There’s always been a balance of engine oils thickening from evaporation loss (noack) and thinning from the permanent shear of viscosity modifiers.
Removing one without the other could result in a loss of a winter grade or two.
There’s always been a balance of engine oils thickening from evaporation loss (noack) and thinning from the permanent shear of viscosity modifiers.
Removing one without the other could result in a loss of a winter grade or two.
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