Started hotshotting oilfield equipement with my F150 a few weeks ago, 271k miles, currently have Castrol Edge EP 5W30 in the sump with 2.5k miles on it, Ill run it to 6-7 k and then start using HPL for extended intervals with UOAs. My question is, which HPL to order? 5W30? 5W40? My driving is all highway miles, 1000 plus a week, although sometimes Ill be idling at the dock while waiting for a backload, not often. No short trips and the everything always gets up to temp. Im thinking an 8k run of HPL for the first time with a UOA, with a filter change at 4k and go from there. Looking to get the most out of all my fluids/filters, also have a filter minder for the air filter.
Which HPL?
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dnewton3
Staff member
Use their PCEO 5w-30.
That is what HPL supplies to some very large fleet accounts in severe service.
Take the first UOA about 50 miles into the OCI; this will establish the baseline for the oxidation, Si, etc.
Then take your UOAs every 5k miles. Build some history for several UOAs.
Then as the ranges and variations are understood, you can perhaps back off the early UOAs, but not until you have good data.
That is what HPL supplies to some very large fleet accounts in severe service.
Take the first UOA about 50 miles into the OCI; this will establish the baseline for the oxidation, Si, etc.
Then take your UOAs every 5k miles. Build some history for several UOAs.
Then as the ranges and variations are understood, you can perhaps back off the early UOAs, but not until you have good data.
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Thanks DNewton. Sound, helpful advice as always
Just out of curiosity, what are the benefits of the HPL No VII oils? I know what VII stands for but just curious if it would benefit in my application.
Never thought of VR&P but Id consider it. Yeah, bought the truck used with 151k and thats my mileage as of now
No VII is just a fancy way to ensure fuel contamination is the only “major” viscosity-altering effect you have to worry about, other than a gradual thickening over very long OCIs. However, it’s not oxidative thickening like you’re worried about with most oils; HPL expects this and for lack of better vocabulary on my part, is basically a “work hardening” over time. All oils have this to some degree, but both VIIs and fuel usually lead the oil to fall out of grade on the low side, which is really bad.
My 16.1k OCI on my tuned ‘19 3.5 EcoBoost on No VII Euro 5w30 did show the oil had thickened from mid-30 grade into a thin 40 grade, which isn’t that objectionable IMO.
However, a No VII oil means that while these oils do meet the requirements for the winter grade specified, they’re going to have a slightly worse viscosity index (no Viscosity Index Improvers, remember?) which means it will see a larger change in viscosity from “cold” to “hot” than something with a very high VI and therefore potentially slightly worse fuel economy than a “true” multigrade. But that difference is noise based on 10,000 variables that are all at least as significant as the oil viscosity. However, No VII means you’re not getting any shear and you’re also going to get a lower Noack result (which HPL doesn’t specify since they use thermogravimetric analysis “TGA” since it’s a more reliable and repeatable test) which potentially reduces oil evaporation and oil mist in the PCV & intake systems.
Considering that my testing on what transits through the PCV system and that the oil vapor carries a decent amount of the additive pack with it into the intake even on a very robust oil, IMO it’s smart to use oils that will retain a higher percentage of its volume under high heat, since the add pack doesn’t protect anything if its being burned in your cylinders & cat converter.
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No VII oils don't shear(lose viscosity), they oxidize(gain viscosity). That's why I bought this for my Jeep. Zero viscosity loss and I will drive my Jeep offroad with confidence
I am a rookie, wait for specialists' reply.
SuperCar isn’t one of the No VII flavors, but you can definitely use it with confidence. Dave says even vs the No VII line it is more robust, but it is not formulated for super-long OCIs like some of the other product lines are. Since it was winter and I had recently gone 16k on No VII, I shortened my OCI on SuperCar 0w30 to 10k and didn’t bother with a UOA. I’m back on the No VII Euro since I plan on continuing 15k OCIs due to the amount I drive and my penchant for higher than normal (for an F-150, anyways) ethanol content of ~30%.No VII oils don't shear(lose viscosity), they oxidize(gain viscosity). That's why I bought this for my Jeep. Zero viscosity loss and I will drive my Jeep offroad with confidence
I am a rookie, wait for specialists' reply.
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That said, HPL’s largest fleet customer runs the PCMO version to 15k in the same engine family with zero problems as well. I mainly buy the No VII just because HPL made that entire product line solely at the request of BITOG board members, and I believe in rewarding companies who deliver what their customers ask for.
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All I am interested in is for the oil to stay at virgin viscosity or thicken a little bit. Did you see member Overkill's oil report? At 6,800 miles Super Car 0W-20 thickened from 8.5 to 9.5. If I stop at 5000 miles it will be like 9.1. I will love that. I drive my Jeep 8000-10,000 miles a year. So $200 on oil is less than dealer or Jiffy Lube. How does winter affect Super Car? Thank you
SuperCar is a fine oil choice in winter. It uses a high-quality, low-quantity star VII that is very robust. I used SuperCar 0w30 in my Subaru Ascent for the winter. It’s on No VII Euro 5w30 for the summer like my F150 is.
Fuel dilution is going to determine if your results end like @OVERKILL ’s did. Do your own testing to see where your engine & your driving habits land; others’ results here may indicate what may be possible, but never rely on others’ equipment condition & driving habits as a guide for yours… that can lead to disaster. Establish your own equipment trends. Search @dnewton3 ’s numerous posts on proven methods to determine safe OCI distances for yourself.
Looking forward to using the HPL pceo 5w30 and possibly the no vii 5w30, Ill be sure to follow up with uoas and results
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Here is how I operate the Jeep. I crank my Pentastar to avoid rough start, then I turn it on, start slowly driving after 15 seconds, drive around until my oil temp hits 100 degrees, get on the highway, drive at low rpms until my temp hits 175 degrees then I push it. I drive on the highway to get to offroad trails, offroad for a few hours, air up, get back on the highway, wash it at a car wash, come home and park the Jeep. If I go grocery shopping, I make sure I use the longer route that involves highway. They say Pentastar is easy on oil. So hopefully I will be fine. After 3000 miles on Super Car I will do a UOA to see how my viscosity looks and how long I can run it for before I get to no go zone i.e. viscosity of over 9.2. 9.2 is the max for me.SuperCar is a fine oil choice in winter. It uses a high-quality, low-quantity star VII that is very robust. I used SuperCar 0w30 in my Subaru Ascent for the winter. It’s on No VII Euro 5w30 for the summer like my F150 is.
Fuel dilution is going to determine if your results end like @OVERKILL ’s did. Do your own testing to see where your engine & your driving habits land; others’ results here may indicate what may be possible, but never rely on others’ equipment condition & driving habits as a guide for yours… that can lead to disaster. Establish your own equipment trends. Search @dnewton3 ’s numerous posts on proven methods to determine safe OCI distances for yourself.
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To crank the engine, I push brake and gas pedal all the way and hold it, push the start button and the engine does its cranking thingie and then stops. Then I push the button again, and then start the Jeep normally. It makes a big difference, engine starts very smoothly after cranking it. Offroad sometimes I use my Tazer to turn the fan on and lower my oil temp. But with Super Car I won't care, let it run as hot as it can.
dnewton3
Staff member
I was asked by the OP to clarify my recommendation, so I'll do so below and add the rationale for my logic ...
Others may have advice which differs from mine. The OP may have his own priorities as well.
Take a UOA about 25 to 50 miles into the OCI. This will give Si and Ox values as baseline numbers, so the delta (change) can be calculated from subsequent UOAs.
Don't change the oil unless there's an indication that the change is necessary. Reasons for condemning the oil would be very high wear rates, vis grossly out of spec, Ox way too high, etc. It's very unlikely this will be the case until you get 20k+ miles or more. But the point is to get some data points along the way.
Example ...
- UOA at 5k miles; if all is OK - continue the OCI; change the filter only. If the data looks good, continue. If the oil looks heavily loaded with dirt/sludge (if the soot/insolubles and Ox are really high), you might consider another OCI here. Don't assume an oil change is needed; let the data tell you one way or another.
- UOA at 10k miles; all OK - continue the OCI; again, change the filter only.
- UOA at 15k miles; all OK - continue the OCI; again - filter change.
- etc ...
Change the oil when the data says so, not your gut. The reason for the frequent filter changes is that with so many miles already on the vehicle it's probably going to need a few filter changes to keep the filter from getting plugged up. As the engine gets cleaned through the use of HPL, the need for filter changes will decrease. Make sure to cut the filters open and really look into the media pleats. HPL is such a good cleaning oil that you should not be surprised to see heavy loading of the media in the first couple of filter changes.
If your UOA history from the first OCI indicates things are doing well, then you might be able to skip the UOAs at 5k and 10k miles, and start the UOAs at 15k miles.
There's no way to know this until you understand the history from the first OCI, as established above.
I am using HPL PCEO in my 2023 ES350 and 2023 MX-5. Because these were bought new, there was no reason to think I needed a 5k or 10k UOA, or frequent filter changes. I plan to take UOAs starting at 15k miles of HPL use. But with used vehicles or those with really high mileage, it's a good idea to do some frequent filter changes due to the unknown loading of "gunk" which will be released by the lube and caught by the filter.
That's my $.02 worth.
Others may have advice which differs from mine. The OP may have his own priorities as well.
Starting out fresh ... change the oil and filter. Use HPL PCEO because it has a robust add pack and is a very cost effective choice. Use any decent filter spec'd for the application; your choice. I'll let you decide what's "best" here.
Take a UOA about 25 to 50 miles into the OCI. This will give Si and Ox values as baseline numbers, so the delta (change) can be calculated from subsequent UOAs.
Every 5k miles, take a UOA.
Don't change the oil unless there's an indication that the change is necessary. Reasons for condemning the oil would be very high wear rates, vis grossly out of spec, Ox way too high, etc. It's very unlikely this will be the case until you get 20k+ miles or more. But the point is to get some data points along the way.
Example ...
- UOA at 5k miles; if all is OK - continue the OCI; change the filter only. If the data looks good, continue. If the oil looks heavily loaded with dirt/sludge (if the soot/insolubles and Ox are really high), you might consider another OCI here. Don't assume an oil change is needed; let the data tell you one way or another.
- UOA at 10k miles; all OK - continue the OCI; again, change the filter only.
- UOA at 15k miles; all OK - continue the OCI; again - filter change.
- etc ...
Change the oil when the data says so, not your gut. The reason for the frequent filter changes is that with so many miles already on the vehicle it's probably going to need a few filter changes to keep the filter from getting plugged up. As the engine gets cleaned through the use of HPL, the need for filter changes will decrease. Make sure to cut the filters open and really look into the media pleats. HPL is such a good cleaning oil that you should not be surprised to see heavy loading of the media in the first couple of filter changes.
In future OCIs, you may be able to reduce the number of UOAs (costs) by delaying the need for UOAs at the front end of each OCI.
If your UOA history from the first OCI indicates things are doing well, then you might be able to skip the UOAs at 5k and 10k miles, and start the UOAs at 15k miles.
There's no way to know this until you understand the history from the first OCI, as established above.
I am using HPL PCEO in my 2023 ES350 and 2023 MX-5. Because these were bought new, there was no reason to think I needed a 5k or 10k UOA, or frequent filter changes. I plan to take UOAs starting at 15k miles of HPL use. But with used vehicles or those with really high mileage, it's a good idea to do some frequent filter changes due to the unknown loading of "gunk" which will be released by the lube and caught by the filter.
That's my $.02 worth.
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IMHO your maintenance plan is optimum. Start with a carefully selected HPL oil early. Then stick with that exact oil.
I screenshot this post and saved it to my camera roll for future reference. Thanks, @dnewton3 , for a comprehensive and easy to follow plan.
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