when is fully synthetic is NOT a fully synthetic!

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I still have an unopened quart of pre-XOM Mobil 1 15W-50 red cap:D

I remember those. IIRC, 10W-30 came with a green cap. And not long after the merger, I think 0W-40 was black cap, 0W-30 was grey and 5W-30 was blue.
 
Yes, that ist a game the companys play.. The last one here was MOTUL how tried to sell their oils as "Fully Synthetic" here in Germany, but get sued and lost on court. They had to re-lable all their Oils here in Germany. But their oils are still sold as "Fully Synthetic" in the rest of the World. Go Figure.
Must not have been over the 300V line-up, that is group V I'm pretty sure.
 
Yes, that ist a game the companys play.. The last one here was MOTUL how tried to sell their oils as "Fully Synthetic" here in Germany, but get sued and lost on court. They had to re-lable all their Oils here in Germany. But their oils are still sold as "Fully Synthetic" in the rest of the World. Go Figure.

Same for MOBIL, while their oil is sold as "Full Synthetic" worldwide, the have to sell it as "SHC Technology" here in Germany, because it dont contain enough PAO / Group IV.

If i want to buy reall full Synthetic oil here in Germany, i can get some from ROWE, Liqui Moly and Ravenol, they carry some in their catlouge.

According to this and other forums, todays Group III oils are almost as good as Group IV oils. On your everyday car you want see a difference.
Also Meguin Megol, same product as Liqui Moly, cheaper price.
 
Must not have been over the 300V line-up, that is group V I'm pretty sure.
The Motul 300V car line is NOT Labeld a "Vollsynthetisch" - Full synthetic in Germany.
It is called "Ester core technologie" here in Germany, annother meaningless marketing term.

In the russian oil club forum, Motul is meanhwile regarded as average, good oil but get critic for its wrong advertising and marketing hype.

But Motul is praised as "Full Synthic racing stuff" here while Liqui Moly, the company that is 100% honest about their Oil quality and labelling, get a lot of critics. Go figure. And see how advertising and marketing work!

Screenshot from the German MOTUL Homepage 5 Minutes ago. All 300V oils are callled "Ester core Technology" here.
 

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Here is VOA of the Motul Motorcycle 7100 full-synth ester core oil from the russian oil club. Google translate it.
https://www.oil-club.ru/forum/topic/46999-motul-7100-4t-10w-40-svezhee/

It is simply a Group III oil with 2% Ester.... :rolleyes: and so on.

I dont buy Motul after all. It´s to much marketing - racing hype for a average oil.
And i really dont like them after they tried to fraud customers here in germany with their wrong labelling.
 
Here is VOA of the Motul Motorcycle 7100 full-synth ester core oil from the russian oil club. Google translate it.
https://www.oil-club.ru/forum/topic/46999-motul-7100-4t-10w-40-svezhee/

It is simply a Group III oil with 2% Ester.... :rolleyes: and so on.

I dont buy Motul after all. It´s to much marketing - racing hype for a average oil.
And i really dont like them after they tried to fraud customers here in germany with their wrong labelling.


At what percentage of ester would you consider a quality synthetic base?
 
Ester is in my opinion - feel free to correct me! - a add-on to enhance the quality off the oil. You cant use Ester as a base oil. Or, precisely, customer dont (or cant) pay it. Is there any pure "over the shelf" Ester Car or Motorcycle oil aviailable known? :unsure:

The base oil for a oil that is labeld full synthetic / racing or whatever should be PAO, in my opinion. Not Group III......

Motul clearly use a Group III oil, add a little bit (2%) of Ester, slap a big "RACING" and "ESTER CORE" (2% ? Really?) Sticker on it and a according big price tag. :unsure: That´s a little bit to much marketing games with customers and their wallets in my opinion.
 
Ester is in my opinion - feel free to correct me! - a add-on to enhance the quality off the oil. You cant use Ester as a base oil. Or, precisely, customer dont (or cant) pay it. Is there any pure "over the shelf" Ester Car or Motorcycle oil aviailable known? :unsure:

The base oil for a oil that is labeld full synthetic / racing or whatever should be PAO, in my opinion. Not Group III......

Motul clearly use a Group III oil, add a little bit (2%) of Ester, slap a big "RACING" and "ESTER CORE" (2% ? Really?) Sticker on it and a according big price tag. :unsure: That´s a little bit to much marketing games with customers and their wallets in my opinion.
Far too expensive for much else than turbines etc … Even the “Ester based” Redline in my newest generator has more PAO than ester - $13/quart plus shipping …
 
At what percentage of ester would you consider a quality synthetic base?

That isn't the point imo. The point is that Motul maketing's making many customers
believe that their top-range oils are majority group 4&5 or even majority group 5 like
this forum mate who certainly isn't alone with with his misbelieve:

Must not have been over the 300V line-up, that is group V I'm pretty sure.
 
.
Yes, aeroplane turbine/jet lubricants like Mobil1 Jet Oil use
to be true ester based oils.
True "fully synthetic" PCMOs (and likely transmission oils)
use to come with a major content of PAO (group 4) and a
smaller content of esters and ANs (both group 5) for two
reasons: Cost (group 5 is even more expensive than group
4) and aniline point. Many will also contain some group 3.
Note that I don't say 'all'. I wouldn't be surprised if some
'cheaper' PAO based PCMOs use some group 2 instead of
group 5 to adjust aniline point. It's pretty self-evidently it
doesn't help with overall performance, but getting aniline
point right is mandatory for seal compatibility.
.
 
It was in response to what you were commenting on.

So what exactly is your interest in Mobil? Your comments here seem familiar, have you been around before?
You are the one that called me out by using an “assumed fact” that you can’t back up.

No need to mince words, what are you trying to accuse me of now? And curiously, what IS your personal interest in people not liking Castrol?

I have been here on BITOG since 09/07/21, why is this important?
 
You are the one that called me out by using an “assumed fact” that you can’t back up.

No need to mince words, what are you trying to accuse me of now? And curiously, what IS your personal interest in people not liking Castrol?

I have been here on BITOG since 09/07/21, why is this important?
That response pretty well answered my question.
 
That isn't the point imo. The point is that Motul maketing's making many customers
believe that their top-range oils are majority group 4&5 or even majority group 5 like
this forum mate who certainly isn't alone with with his misbelieve:

Heck I never heard of a 100% group 5 oil. I always though of a group 5 petroleum product as an additive to engine oils (like ester). Of course you have this crazy marketing with Amsoil that says they are classified as a true group 5 oil. I actually have no clue as to what is truthful.

All I know is my anecdotal experience using high quality ester based Motul 800 2T and 300V in hard core trail conditions where temps on the bikes reach high temps and in one case lost all my water and was able to make it back to my truck with no engine damage.
 
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