What's up with Mobil deserting the LL-01 market?

[oil_film_movies]

Probably 2 reasons:
Big Picture: Exxon-Mobil makes far more money off selling gas/diesel and doesn't care about the tiny loss of market share here.

Another reason is that BMW dealerships give free oil changes for the first few years of ownership, and older BMW owners may not care or notice that LL-01 is gone from the label if thats what they have been buying before.

As for the Pennzoil 0w40 dropping it, maybe they want you to buy the SOPUS oil at the dealerships instead.

 

[ecotourist]

I wonder if the cost of the LL-01 certification was too high.

It's not easy finding an oil that's labelled as being LL-01 compliant. The only one I have been able to find is Castrol Syntec 0W-30. I was using that anyway but now there doesn't seem to be an alternative, which is never a good thing. And it's not easy finding Castrol Syntec 0W-30 either. The only place I've been able to find it in the Victoria area at a reasonable price (and not such a reasonable price at that) is Walmart. My nearest Canadian Tire store doesn't carry it. It is sold at specialist auto outlets but at quite high prices. I think I paid $7/liter at Walmart for 6 1/2 liters for my last change.

 

[mightymousetech]

Originally Posted By: ecotourist
I wonder if the cost of the LL-01 certification was too high.

It's not easy finding an oil that's labelled as being LL-01 compliant. The only one I have been able to find is Castrol Syntec 0W-30. I was using that anyway but now there doesn't seem to be an alternative, which is never a good thing. And it's not easy finding Castrol Syntec 0W-30 either. The only place I've been able to find it in the Victoria area at a reasonable price (and not such a reasonable price at that) is Walmart. My nearest Canadian Tire store doesn't carry it. It is sold at specialist auto outlets but at quite high prices. I think I paid $7/liter at Walmart for 6 1/2 liters for my last change.


Where did you find the 0W30? I thought it was discontinued and replaced by the 0W40?

 

[oil_film_movies]

ecotourist, For an 18 year old BMW, any 0w40 or 5w40 you find will work great. Forget LL-01.
Walmarts in the U.S. often carry at least 3 different brands of 0w40, and they will all work fine in a BMW.

 

[Ethan1]

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
Originally Posted By: Ethan1
It probably wasn't selling well?


Don't think that is the answer.


Well they're a business, so their goal is to make money. Are you suggesting a conspiracy? I love a good conspiracy theory

 

[ecotourist]

Originally Posted By: mightymousetech

Where did you find the 0W30? I thought it was discontinued and replaced by the 0W40?

My local (Victoria BC) Walmart carries it. I cleaned them out of stock and bought a bit more when they restocked. That was about about a month ago.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: Seventh
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted By: 4WD
What is current factory fill for BMW?


I've heard most dealers just fill with the standard 5W-30 LL-01 since it works in everything.


Almost.

About 95% of BMW products that originally called for LL-01 have now been back-spec'd for LL-01FE.

At the dealer where I work we pump LL-01FE into everything unless it specifically calls for LL-14FE+.

We only keep a few boxes of LL-01 around for the cars that are not back-spec'd, or for the customers that specifically ask for it, which is virtually zero.


This.

Mobil realized that LL-01FE was superseding the LL-01 applications, so there was little point in paying for LL-01 certification on the 0W-40. Their resources were better spent on developing a LL-01FE approved oil.

 

[Brons2]

If the M1 0w40 is still the same oil without the cert, why not just run it anyway so long as you are out of warranty?

 

[ecotourist]

Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
ecotourist, For an 18 year old BMW, any 0w40 or 5w40 you find will work great. Forget LL-01.
Walmarts in the U.S. often carry at least 3 different brands of 0w40, and they will all work fine in a BMW.

You're probably right but this BMW has less than 100,000 miles and it's a very nice specimen with a 5 speed manual transmission, M sport package (M5 wheels, M5 roll bars, sport seats, lower body aero kit, blackout trim), interior appearance package (dark wood trim on black leather), HID headlights, sunroof and a few other things I've probably forgotten. So in spite of its age I try to take good care of it.

 

[mightymousetech]

Originally Posted By: ecotourist
Originally Posted By: mightymousetech

Where did you find the 0W30? I thought it was discontinued and replaced by the 0W40?

My local (Victoria BC) Walmart carries it. I cleaned them out of stock and bought a bit more when they restocked. That was about about a month ago.


[censored], $12/L. Guess I will stick to the 0W40 for $26/5L when it goes on sale.

https://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/castrol-syntec-0w30-1-litre/6000016937531

 

[Seventh]

I think it may also have something to do with the fact that the factory BMW LL-01 oil still carries API SL rating, which makes me wonder if there's some regulations in play here that are making these older spec oils slow (and eventually stop) production.

I don't have any M1 LL-01 spec oil on hand to look at but I'm wondering what the older LL-01 M1 API rating is, vs the newer (non-LL-01) API rating.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: mightymousetech
Where did you find the 0W30? I thought it was discontinued and replaced by the 0W40?

Wakefield Canada has told me that the Castrol 0w-30 A3/B4 remains available in Canada.

 

[Brons2]

Originally Posted By: Seventh
I think it may also have something to do with the fact that the factory BMW LL-01 oil still carries API SL rating, which makes me wonder if there's some regulations in play here that are making these older spec oils slow (and eventually stop) production.

I don't have any M1 LL-01 spec oil on hand to look at but I'm wondering what the older LL-01 M1 API rating is, vs the newer (non-LL-01) API rating.


Is M1 0w40 now SN?

M1 HM 10w30 is SL and has ACEA A3, if one was looking for a SL rated non LL-01 oil.

 

[Brons2]

Originally Posted By: ecotourist
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
ecotourist, For an 18 year old BMW, any 0w40 or 5w40 you find will work great. Forget LL-01.
Walmarts in the U.S. often carry at least 3 different brands of 0w40, and they will all work fine in a BMW.

You're probably right but this BMW has less than 100,000 miles and it's a very nice specimen with a 5 speed manual transmission, M sport package (M5 wheels, M5 roll bars, sport seats, lower body aero kit, blackout trim), interior appearance package (dark wood trim on black leather), HID headlights, sunroof and a few other things I've probably forgotten. So in spite of its age I try to take good care of it.


If the only difference with the 0w40 is that Mobil is not going to pay for LL-01 certification anymore, I don't see how that is not still taking good care of your car?

M1 0w40 has consistently shown to have good analysis reports on a variety of vehicles here on BITOG.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: Brons2
If the M1 0w40 is still the same oil without the cert, why not just run it anyway so long as you are out of warranty?


Because LL-01FE replaced LL-01 for most applications. LL-01FE is a significantly lighter oil with different properties. It is closer to an ACEA A5 product.

 

[mightymousetech]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: mightymousetech
Where did you find the 0W30? I thought it was discontinued and replaced by the 0W40?

Wakefield Canada has told me that the Castrol 0w-30 A3/B4 remains available in Canada.


Thanks!

 

[Coprolite]

There has been no reason announced why the new M1 0w40 doesn't have the LL-01 certification. To speculate that it is purely based upon certification cost is baseless. Companies like Amsoil simply say complies...

The new formulation could very well have a good reason that it doesn't have the certification like the HTHS dropping too low. It is more likely that it doesn't meet it than Mobil being unwilling to pay for the cert. With the number of certs listed on every bottle of oil on the shelf, having the certs that the oil meets on the bottle is part of the cost of doing business.

 

[1JZ_E46]

Originally Posted By: Seventh
I'm going on record here saying you can pretty much use whatever you want (within reason) in a B series modular engine and it will be fine. BMW has officially lost their credibility with "oil specifications" as far as I'm concerned. They're all over the place, and the B series engines have proven to be really tough to hurt from what I've seen.


I'd say you're probably right being able to use anything from LL-01 to LL-14 FE+ in a B series engine. Maybe BMW (and Shell) needed more time testing and developing their 0W-20 brew before they gave it the official go ahead. Too bad there aren't more aftermarket LL-01 FE options. Seems like a good middle ground for daily driving.

 

[1JZ_E46]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
This.

Mobil realized that LL-01FE was superseding the LL-01 applications, so there was little point in paying for LL-01 certification on the 0W-40. Their resources were better spent on developing a LL-01FE approved oil.


Does Mobil have an LL-01 FE approved oil? I didn't think they did.

 

[mightymousetech]

Originally Posted By: Coprolite
There has been no reason announced why the new M1 0w40 doesn't have the LL-01 certification. To speculate that it is purely based upon certification cost is baseless. Companies like Amsoil simply say complies...


This!