What triggered you to align with a certain manufacturer for your cordless tools?

[wrcsixeight]

Battery question. If a tool has two batteries of capacity X and 2X does it produce more power/torque using the 2X battery or is it identical and just goes about twice as long before going dead?

A 4.0 ah battery likely has 10 cells. 2 parallel pairs of 5 cells in series
A 2.0ah battery likely has just 5 cells in series.

Each individual cell is rated for a maximum continuous discharge rate.

Usually on powertools this is no Less than 20 amps amperage, and a higher cdr is better, but high cdr cells, usually have half the rated capacity of the highest capacity cells which usually have a rather dismal cdr.

So in a 10 cell battery, each cell is providing roughly half the current as would a 5 cell battery when Powering the same load.

As a result, the voltage each cell retains whike powering that large load is higher on a 10 cell battery than on a 5 cell battery.

So the drill motor getting 19.5v under a 30 amp load from a 10 cell 4.0 ah baTtery, is going to have more torque than a 5 cell baTtery, that can only maintain 17.8v powering the same load.

Also there is the Peukert effect, which basically says the larger the electrical load the less total available capacity the baTtery will have.

So a larger capacity battery, will not only have more power, it will be affected to a much lesser degree than the smaller capacity battery, by the Peukert effect.

Since in a 10 cell, 5series 2parallel battery, each cell is providing half the amperage of a 5S battery, it will suffer far less from peukert effect, and heat up from within to a far lesser degree.

The 10 cell battery has 2x the capacity, so it can power the same large load, for at least 2x as long, and perhaps as much as 2.5x

And the larger capacity battery will heat less, and heat is a big enemy of battery longevity.

So while a 1.5 /2.0 ah battery is more than adequate for many tasks, there are few situations where the larger capacity will not only double +the times required between recharges, it will deliver higher voltage to the motor, for more torque/speed under load, and the higher the load the bigger the difference will be.

As the lithium battery pack accumulates cycles its performance will degrade.
How fast it degrades depends on how hot it gets, and averaGe temperature, and how hard it had to work when it worked hard, and the average state of charge.

LIthium batteries do not really want to be fulky charged ASAP, like lead acid batteries, which practically demand such, for good or better service life.

A 18v battery pack from ryobi, ridgid, makita, and dewalt, are charged to the 20.5v range, where if it were returned to true 100% state of charge it would read 2!.0v. Warm off the charger.

Most 3.6v nominal lithium cells spec 2.5v as the absolute minimum acceptable voltage, so 12.5v for a 5s or 5s2p "18v" battery. I noticed my ridgid 2.0 ah battery BMS shut down the Battery/tool at 14.39v yesterday, measured 30 seconds later. So 2.88v per cell, 30 seconds after load removal. Likely hit much closer 2.5v while under load.

In my observations of 18650, 21700,14500, and 16340 cells, voltage tanks fast after 3.25v is passed.

I suspect most power tool batteries are attempting to keep the battery a 10% to 95% state of charge range, to maximize cycle life, or at least last the warranty period.

I'm expending minimal efforts to keep my lithium batteries in the 20% to 80% range, and cool, and hope to never require the warranty, even with the registered Ridgids.

 

[CDX825]

When I got into the trades Dewalt was pretty much the gold standard for cordless tools. Everyone had Dewalt tools so when it came time to buy my first set it was Dewalt.

In more recent years Milwaukee has become popular. I seriously looked at them at one time but being more expensive and made in china was a turn off to me.

 

[LDB]

A 4.0 ah battery likely has 10 cells. 2 parallel pairs of 5 cells in series
A 2.0ah battery likely has just 5 cells in series.

Each individual cell is rated for a maximum continuous discharge rate.

Usually on powertools this is no Less than 20 amps amperage, and a higher cdr is better, but high cdr cells, usually have half the rated capacity of the highest capacity cells which usually have a rather dismal cdr.

So in a 10 cell battery, each cell is providing roughly half the current as would a 5 cell battery when Powering the same load.

As a result, the voltage each cell retains whike powering that large load is higher on a 10 cell battery than on a 5 cell battery.

So the drill motor getting 19.5v under a 30 amp load from a 10 cell 4.0 ah baTtery, is going to have more torque than a 5 cell baTtery, that can only maintain 17.8v powering the same load.

Also there is the Peukert effect, which basically says the larger the electrical load the less total available capacity the baTtery will have.

So a larger capacity battery, will not only have more power, it will be affected to a much lesser degree than the smaller capacity battery, by the Peukert effect.

Since in a 10 cell, 5series 2parallel battery, each cell is providing half the amperage of a 5S battery, it will suffer far less from peukert effect, and heat up from within to a far lesser degree.

The 10 cell battery has 2x the capacity, so it can power the same large load, for at least 2x as long, and perhaps as much as 2.5x

And the larger capacity battery will heat less, and heat is a big enemy of battery longevity.

So while a 1.5 /2.0 ah battery is more than adequate for many tasks, there are few situations where the larger capacity will not only double +the times required between recharges, it will deliver higher voltage to the motor, for more torque/speed under load, and the higher the load the bigger the difference will be.

As the lithium battery pack accumulates cycles its performance will degrade.
How fast it degrades depends on how hot it gets, and averaGe temperature, and how hard it had to work when it worked hard, and the average state of charge.

LIthium batteries do not really want to be fulky charged ASAP, like lead acid batteries, which practically demand such, for good or better service life.

A 18v battery pack from ryobi, ridgid, makita, and dewalt, are charged to the 20.5v range, where if it were returned to true 100% state of charge it would read 2!.0v. Warm off the charger.

Most 3.6v nominal lithium cells spec 2.5v as the absolute minimum acceptable voltage, so 12.5v for a 5s or 5s2p "18v" battery. I noticed my ridgid 2.0 ah battery BMS shut down the Battery/tool at 14.39v yesterday, measured 30 seconds later. So 2.88v per cell, 30 seconds after load removal. Likely hit much closer 2.5v while under load.

In my observations of 18650, 21700,14500, and 16340 cells, voltage tanks fast after 3.25v is passed.

I suspect most power tool batteries are attempting to keep the battery a 10% to 95% state of charge range, to maximize cycle life, or at least last the warranty period.

I'm expending minimal efforts to keep my lithium batteries in the 20% to 80% range, and cool, and hope to never require the warranty, even with the registered Ridgids.

Wow, there's a lot more I'm clueless about than I realized. Thanks for a very detailed explanation.

 

[Ihatetochangeoil]

Milwaukee. Period. I do not work in the automotive industry; I am employed in the welding/fabrication industry on a contract basis. Pipefitters, boilermakers, ironworkers on every job (from what I've seen) simply use Milwaukee. Battery power has changed industry; every construction site USED to have hundreds, sometimes thousands, of feet of extension cords running all over the place, no more. And every contractor uses Milwaukee. Burn the Co. logo onto the batteries, and security checks lunchboxes on the way out every day. Gang battery chargers that charge 6 batteries at once. Depending upon how heavy the tools are being used, I've seen a maximum of 4 batteries last a 10 hour shift. It is amazing to actually see what is capable with battery power these days, and the general lack of extension cords makes a cleaner and safer job site.
I've read the comments on this thread and in my opinion, BITOG users are just as critical as industry when it comes to favorites. I see this thread as just as informative as Popular Mechanics magazine review: https://www.popularmechanics.com/ho...#product-e9dc4325-f495-4c91-9733-5ca311175ce4 I do NOT like the fact that Milwaukee is now "made in China," although it is done to Milwaukee specifications. I have Milwaukee tools at home mostly because they were almost free; some of the companies I work with spend $5-8K per month on tools, and the foremen tell me that the Milwaukee salesmen ALWAYS throw in a "couple extra batteries and a single charger" or two. Single battery chargers are NOT used on jobsites, but they are more than adequate in a garage at home. My 2767 1/2" impact will remove anything on a car or light truck; if there is room to get the wrench on it, it's coming loose.

 

[KenshinHimura]

I went with dewalt as when i was looking for my first power tool set, Dewalt at the time had the USA assembled power tool kits. Also, Milwaukee was out of my price range and the Makita Ni cad drills i used during high school stage crew didnt leave a good impression on me for any thing teal with a battery.

 

[cptbarkey]

As a homeowner who needs to maintain 2 other family properties for the last 15 years, its been a journey.

I started off with Makita drill and driver, beat the piss out of them and they never failed, never had a battery failure either. Built fences, and a few sheds.

On a whim I switched to Dewalt, my cousin introduced me to Dewalt in the late 90s as he maintained several houses for a property management co. I bought a similar drill and driver, sold the Makita, and was ... a little disappointed. Makita was better, but the Dewalts were a little more powerful. Both my Dewalt drill and driver get use 12 years later. I very recently purchased a Dewalt battery pole saw, and it rips and rips and rips. I love it. I eagerly trimmed limbs left and right. No more trashy 2 stroke gas pole saw to struggle with.

I have a few Cordless Ryobi's that get infrequent use, a Sawzall and Jigzaw. The Sawzall chopped up a few cars for the junkyard. The Jigzaw has worked pretty good with light use.

Finally my pride and joy is my Milwaukee M18 1/2 Mid Torque, and Stubby 3/8 M12. For some reason I dont agree with ratchets yet, i'm OK with using hand tools for very hard tight spots. The Mid Torque does everything I need and my air compressor sits idle. The Stubby is when I dont need Thor's hammer and prevent breaking things.

So I guess I maintain 3 different brands, and I'm OK with that.

 

[Brons2]

I'm Makita as well, my dad had them first in the 1990s. I went over to my parents house one time to help my dad with something and I really liked the way the Makita drill felt in my hand. So a few months later I bought my own and had those for probably 20 years. Within the last 5 years I upgraded to 18v and have a number of tools in the 18v range with two separate battery sizes, the small one for the drills, and the big 5.0 ah for everyhing else. I got into the 5.0ah when I got the 1400 foot-lb impact, which I love love love for doing work on the vehicles. For years I wanted a pneumatic tool setup in the garage, now, I don't need it.

 

[RyanY]

My first cordless was Craftsman drill and blower with 19.2 V NiCd batteries which died quickly and were pricey. So I trashed the blower and switched to the Dewalt 18V platform. The drill, 1/4 impact, and circular saw worked well for a few years until thes NiCd batteries also died. At that point the newer Li-ion entered the market and I was looking for a broad range of products that wouldn't break the bank. After all I'm a DIY not a pro, so the tools would only get occasional use. I opted for the Ryobi line for the tool options, but dislike the fact that they are only available at HD or online. If no online option they would not be my choice. I also added a Dewalt 1/4 impact when I found it on sale; I like that nearly every store has Dewalt so I don't have to wait for online orders or go to HD (much further away than Lowes/Ace/Tractor Supply).

 

[wrcsixeight]

Like many, I am disgusted that a new drill and driver with 2 new batteries and charger, cost about 20 bucks more than just 2 new baTteries, in most instances.

How many perfectly good tools are languishing unused, or in a landfill, because replacement batteries dont make financial sense?

My old man had a cordless electrolux 'ergorapido' vaccuum. When its 10 series nimh AA batteries became worthless, replacement batteries were available, but priced ridiculously, especially for old tech.

He bought an overpriced half as capable dust buster, and tossed the ergorapido in the trash. I pulled it from the trash and hid it.

A few months later he got all PO'd that i had used the other dustbuster and did not empty it and rehang it.

I pulled out the ergorapido, saw the charging wall wart said 18v, 300mA.
Took it apart and fed the nicads with an adjustable power supply until they held 14.62v unloaded. Turned on vaccuum and it shut off in a second.

Cut the wires, and fed it 19.08v from a ridgid battery. It worked, and with far more suction than i recall and more than than other newer lithium dustbuster.

I have a 'power wheels adPter' that I screwed to body, and has anderson powerpole connectors.
I plugged in a ridgid bTtery waRm off charger, and no workee.
Plug in half discharged ridgid Battery and workee.

Seems any battery voltage above 19.6v and it refused to turn on.

Right now i have a Makita battery in a makita to ridgid battery adapter powering it.
It gets tons of use. I try and keep one battery below 19.6v in case my daD runs the other down.
Its not as powerful as the corded vacuum, but a million times more convenient.

And its not in a landfill.

The motor seems to have no issue being fed 50% more voltage than the original battery pack could provide.

Am considering adding a voltage dropping diode inline so a battery pack straight off charger will work, but draining an '18v' battery to 19.6v or less with other tools, is so far, easier.

Those with perfectly good tools with useless batteries, look into battery adapters.

2 Ridgid 4.0 ah lithium batteries often go on special, with charger, for 99$, sometimes 79$.

Same for ryobi baTteries, but their adapters push Battery 2 inches away from receiver due to the neck design.

 

[BHopkins]

Back when I had more respect for Craftsman tools, I bought a Craftsman 19.2 drill as my first cordless tool. It was a beast. The batteries lasted a long time and it had plenty of torque. By the time the batteries finally started giving out, Craftsman had changed the design of their 19.2 batteries, so it was cheaper to get a new 19.2 drill set, than replace the batteries. The second Craftsman 19.2 was a dog compared to the first one. So it wasn't long before I was in the market for a new drill, and wanted to get one that had a good cordless tool system, that I could expand.

At that time, the maintenance/facilities department in the manufacturing plant I worked at had mostly DeWalt cordless tools. Because the shop had been using DeWalt for quite some time, the tools were a mix of some newer and some quite worn tools. Regardless if they were new or old. Then the department manager decided to replace all the power hand tools with Milwaukee.

I was immediately impressed with the Milwaukee M18 Fuel tools. The drill chucks were in a whole different league than the ones on the DeWalt tools. As was the electric brake. And I preferred the fit and feel of the Milwaukee tools. So I bought myself a Milwaukee M18 Fuel drill/driver set for Christmas that year, and have adding to the set ever since.

The only cordless tool I have that is not Milwaukee is a Kobalt hedge trimmer. It was on sale and the price was too good to pass up.

 

[Dave9]

My first cordless tool was a 7.2V Craftsman drill with ~1.2Ah NiCd batteries. I drove many thousands of screws with it as a contractor, but it would struggle with > 1" holes in floor joists.

Stepped up to Dewalt, ran Dewalt for years, and then the homeowner grade brands improved enough that I had other concerns like battery support. I would have loved to buy OEM, Li-Ion batteries and charger that worked with my still functional NiCd based tools. Even today I still have the Dewalt tools but if I rebuilt the packs again, I'd figure out a way to go Li-Ion with an adapter, not use NiCd cells again.

This made me switch to Ryobi because they've had the same battery format... ever since they first started making 18V NiCd AFAIK. Their 18V battery is even the same (except for mounting footprint size) as my ancient 7.2V was... back then (and until the recent SB&D acquisition), Craftsman was made by TTI, same manufacturer making Ryobi's cordless hand tools today.

If I still worked as a contractor, I'd go with Dewalt or Milwaukee for the most used tools, but probably still some Ryobi because they have such a wide variety of tools available and some really great deals, like recently Home Depot was selling a two pack of 4Ah batteries with a charger, and a free tool with one of the options being another two pack of 4Ah batteries. 4 x 4Ah batteries and a charger for $99 !!

 

[D60]

{snip}

I was immediately impressed with the Milwaukee M18 Fuel tools. The drill chucks were in a whole different league than the ones on the DeWalt tools. As was the electric brake. And I preferred the fit and feel of the Milwaukee tools. So I bought myself a Milwaukee M18 Fuel drill/driver set for Christmas that year, and have adding to the set ever since.

The only cordless tool I have that is not Milwaukee is a Kobalt hedge trimmer. It was on sale and the price was too good to pass up.

Now that's hilarious because every Milwaukee chuck I've touched is garbage all the way up to the 2804. I just got a 2904 and the chuck seems slightly re-engineered but I decided to not even risk it and a Rohm is en route.

I've put Rohms on EVERY Milwaukee I have, including the baby M12 2407. Even though that one started life as a 3/8" drill I fit a 1/2" capacity chuck and it's REALLY nice for c-sinks.

Historically Dewalt came with Rohm, although the new 20V stuff looks different. I just bought a for-parts Dewalt XRP on ebay SOLELY to strip the Rohm chuck off it.

I'm a Milwaukee fan boi but their chucks are terrible. I can't conceive how you like them, we must literally live in parallel universes. Does gravity send things to the floor or the ceiling in your neck of the woods??

 

[BHopkins]

Now that's hilarious because every Milwaukee chuck I've touched is garbage all the way up to the 2804. I just got a 2904 and the chuck seems slightly re-engineered but I decided to not even risk it and a Rohm is en route.

I've put Rohms on EVERY Milwaukee I have, including the baby M12 2407. Even though that one started life as a 3/8" drill I fit a 1/2" capacity chuck and it's REALLY nice for c-sinks.

Historically Dewalt came with Rohm, although the new 20V stuff looks different. I just bought a for-parts Dewalt XRP on ebay SOLELY to strip the Rohm chuck off it.

I'm a Milwaukee fan boi but their chucks are terrible. I can't conceive how you like them, we must literally live in parallel universes. Does gravity send things to the floor or the ceiling in your neck of the woods??

You aren't the first one to tell me that. But it wasn't just me. When our shop had DeWalt drills, the drill bit drawers were filled with galled bits, from them having turned in a DeWalt chuck.

I've almost never had that problem with Milwaukee chucks. With Milwaukee, I no longer feel the need to turn the chuck until the palms of my hands are sore. They just work.

 

[Luftmasse]

For Automotive, it will be Team Red.

 

[Crash Bandicoot]

I had a hitachi drill that got drowned in a bucket during a hurricane. Pulled it out when I got back, dried it and sprayed it with contact cleaner and it worked for 3 years before getting stolen in a move so I like Hitachi Metabo stuff. Other than that no loyalty. It’s all disposable stuff made in China for the most part and even Ryobi is more than I need for my auto maintenance and repair. I try and buy USA/EMEA made hand tools when they’re not unreasonable not because I need anything more than Pittsburgh pro but because I can afford them, they last forever, and like keeping my money in countries with higher wage, workplace safety, and environmental standards. I’ve never chased battery compatibility; only nuisance is having 12 billion chargers in the garage. Usually cheap oddball power tools are handled by Ryobi since the tool line is deep. I’ve got a few chinesium one+ 18v batteries to power them.

 

[Trav]

I do NOT like the fact that Milwaukee is now "made in China," although it is done to Milwaukee specifications.

Makita is Japanese, they have factories in china that they own and operate. Milwaukee was bought by the Chinese company TTI, they are Chinese owned and made. Milwaukee today is not related to old Milwaukee in any way but the name, they use the name because Americans recognize it more than they would if the tools were branded TTI.

 

[Ihatetochangeoil]

Makita is Japanese, they have factories in china that they own and operate. Milwaukee was bought by the Chinese company TTI, they are Chinese owned and made. Milwaukee today is not related to old Milwaukee in any way but the name, they use the name because Americans recognize it more than they would if the tools were branded TTI.

Trav, I do not doubt you at all, but this troubles me deeply. What you have just told me is that American tooling and manufacturing is dead. I also know from personal experience (buying tools), machinist tool makers (Brown & Sharp, Starrett) which were industry standard for 100+ years and proudly made in USA, are now made in China. I cannot say more without going political, but my heart is American.

 

[SaberOne]

I tried most of the top names, including DeWalt, Milwaukee, BOSCH, and Makita. For me, it depends on the particular tool. In the case of Electric drills, I like the Ergonomics of Milwaukee.

 

[Trav]

Trav, I do not doubt you at all, but this troubles me deeply. What you have just told me is that American tooling and manufacturing is dead. I also know from personal experience (buying tools), machinist tool makers (Brown & Sharp, Starrett) which were industry standard for 100+ years and proudly made in USA, are now made in China. I cannot say more without going political, but my heart is American.

They still make some Starrett in Athol, MA and still sell some tools in a store. they also do repairs. I used to like AEG and the original German made Metabo but they are gone now. They exist in name only but they were great power tools, today the once great AEG is now owned by the Chicom company TTI who also makes Milwaukee and Ryobi. Same deal as Milwaukee, AEG was at one time along with Bosch a preferred brand in Germany that is why TTI bought it and labels their Chicom crap AEG.

 

[vavavroom]

I can't resist the combination of yellow and black. Yes, I'm that shallow.