What oil to use for extended change interval (10k)

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Originally Posted By: gathermewool


I actually posted up asking whether it was worth paying so much more for a boutique oil I wasn't mentally prepared to run for longer than what I'm currently running in my STI. In other words, if UOA shows that I can run T6 out to 10kmi, and I'm not willing to run an oil like Amsoil or Redline out further, is it worth it? Is the RL/Amsoil protecting or providing any benefit over that OCI if the T6 holds up just fine? Like you, I dont plan to replace the motor, and am hoping to eek out 200k moreo on my STI and 100k more on my Leggy, but I'm not sure that can't be done doing what I'm doing. I am open to change, though.

What I'm doing:

97 Subaru Legacy (203kmi): This is my DD and winter driving car. I work 3.6 miles from home. I run errands a few days a week, and sometimes make longer, 50+ mile trips. In the winter I make most of my long distance trips - 1-1/2 hrs down to see the gf every other week + where ever else the wind takes me on a given weekend - in this car, so it does get plenty of highway miles. In the warmer months it's mainly a back-and-forth-to-work car, but will still see a few longer trips. FWIW, this will be my first time running the oil out to 10k on T6.

08 Subaru STI (19kmi): This is my nice-day, summer driving car. It mostly sees the highway, with spirited on-ramp jonts, and weekend days on the back roads. Overally I'd say it sees 80/20 highway. My last OCI was 4600 miles, this one will be 7500, and the next will be based UOA results. The results at 4600 - my first run on T6 - seemed to have a lot of life left.

Neither car burns any oil at all, though the Leggy did burn 1-1/2 qts when I first switched over from GTX HM to T6 over the first 1500 miles. I'm at 5000 miles now on this OCI, and haven't burned a drop since.
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In all honesty, I would get some UOA's of these 10k runs you're going to be making and go from there. I am certainly not saying that what you are currently using can't or won't hold up to that length. You may be really happy with the results.

My vehicles, mileage-wise are similar.
S10 has 186k or so and the Solstice has 11k. The SSO in the Pontiac can flat out absorb some miles, although with it being a turbocharged motor, the warranty distance is less outside of sampling the extension of the warranty further.

It sounds like you take care of your vehicles.
How many miles a year would you say you're looking at putting on both, if you had to figure a number?
 
Originally Posted By: BeanCounter
Originally Posted By: gathermewool


I actually posted up asking whether it was worth paying so much more for a boutique oil I wasn't mentally prepared to run for longer than what I'm currently running in my STI. In other words, if UOA shows that I can run T6 out to 10kmi, and I'm not willing to run an oil like Amsoil or Redline out further, is it worth it? Is the RL/Amsoil protecting or providing any benefit over that OCI if the T6 holds up just fine? Like you, I dont plan to replace the motor, and am hoping to eek out 200k moreo on my STI and 100k more on my Leggy, but I'm not sure that can't be done doing what I'm doing. I am open to change, though.

What I'm doing:

97 Subaru Legacy (203kmi): This is my DD and winter driving car. I work 3.6 miles from home. I run errands a few days a week, and sometimes make longer, 50+ mile trips. In the winter I make most of my long distance trips - 1-1/2 hrs down to see the gf every other week + where ever else the wind takes me on a given weekend - in this car, so it does get plenty of highway miles. In the warmer months it's mainly a back-and-forth-to-work car, but will still see a few longer trips. FWIW, this will be my first time running the oil out to 10k on T6.

08 Subaru STI (19kmi): This is my nice-day, summer driving car. It mostly sees the highway, with spirited on-ramp jonts, and weekend days on the back roads. Overally I'd say it sees 80/20 highway. My last OCI was 4600 miles, this one will be 7500, and the next will be based UOA results. The results at 4600 - my first run on T6 - seemed to have a lot of life left.

Neither car burns any oil at all, though the Leggy did burn 1-1/2 qts when I first switched over from GTX HM to T6 over the first 1500 miles. I'm at 5000 miles now on this OCI, and haven't burned a drop since.
21.gif



In all honesty, I would get some UOA's of these 10k runs you're going to be making and go from there. I am certainly not saying that what you are currently using can't or won't hold up to that length. You may be really happy with the results.

My vehicles, mileage-wise are similar.
S10 has 186k or so and the Solstice has 11k. The SSO in the Pontiac can flat out absorb some miles, although with it being a turbocharged motor, the warranty distance is less outside of sampling the extension of the warranty further.

It sounds like you take care of your vehicles.
How many miles a year would you say you're looking at putting on both, if you had to figure a number?


When I was 16 all I wanted was an S10. The bully in the neighborhood who liked me because I was goofy and didn't take his temper tantrums had an S10. I thought he was dumb as rocks, but the truck was cool! I've always had a thing for the Solstice, but they seem to get a bad wrap as far as reliability goes.

I've been using Dyson for the STI. I plan to send off one more sample at 7500 and adjust from there on, sending a sample in every other change to keep an eye on things. I justify the expense of Dyson by telling myself that I'm saving out over the STI guys who use $10/qt oil at 3k OCI, plus I have Dyson to back me up. I'll probably send off a sample to Blackstone for the leggy, since it's cheaper. I really don't have any doubts that the leggy can go 10k. I don't burn any oil, really take it easy on'er, and there arent any major mechanical issues that would contaminate the oil (that I know of.) I also bought an oil filter cutter opener to see what the filters are catching and how they're holding up.

IMHO, I think a lot more people can go a lot further on their current choice of oil than they do. I'm not talking going from 3k to 5k, but from 3k to 7k+. I'm always talking with the guys in the hobby shop about oil - my latest hobby, thank to you fine bitogers.
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The guys who run the shop sent someone over yesterday asking whether he could run a mineral oil in his newer Trailblazer since he's been using synthetic - M1 - in his car since new. We all know the answer to that, but I'd bet a lot of people don't. Those people are the same who think synthetic is synthetic, and M1 is the creme de la creme. I told him that M1 wasn't really fully synthetic, but was an excellent oil, and that if he planned to change his oil so frequently to use any brand name oil. I mentioned people on this site who routinely run regular M1 to 10k+, which resulted in a curious look from him.

It's too tough to explain, and I'm not the best speaker, so I don't mention SM-rated or anything else, since most brand names you'll find in an auto parts store are all SM-rated, and will all work perfectly fine for him for a 3-5k OCI. If he wanted to go further, there's no need to ask me; send off a sample for analysis and let them tell you. Before I found this site, sending off a sample for UOA was recommended to me by the guy at the local independent parts store. That was the seed for learning for me. I never try to seem overly knowledgeable when I talk to my friends and family (unless it's something simple and I know they don't care to hear more). I tell them about this place, what I've learned, and how they can figure out what will work for them, and for how long - UOA.
 
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Originally Posted By: gathermewool

When I was 16 all I wanted was an S10. The bully in the neighborhood who liked me because I was goofy and didn't take his temper tantrums had an S10. I thought he was dumb as rocks, but the truck was cool! I've always had a thing for the Solstice, but they seem to get a bad wrap as far as reliability goes.

I've been using Dyson for the STI. I plan to send off one more sample at 7500 and adjust from there on, sending a sample in every other change to keep an eye on things. I justify the expense of Dyson by telling myself that I'm saving out over the STI guys who use $10/qt oil at 3k OCI, plus I have Dyson to back me up. I'll probably send off a sample to Blackstone for the leggy, since it's cheaper. I really don't have any doubts that the leggy can go 10k. I don't burn any oil, really take it easy on'er, and there arent any major mechanical issues that would contaminate the oil (that I know of.) I also bought an oil filter cutter opener to see what the filters are catching and how they're holding up.

IMHO, I think a lot more people can go a lot further on their current choice of oil than they do. I'm not talking going from 3k to 5k, but from 3k to 7k+. I'm always talking with the guys in the hobby shop about oil - my latest hobby, thank to you fine bitogers.
11.gif
The guys who run the shop sent someone over yesterday asking whether he could run a mineral oil in his newer Trailblazer since he's been using synthetic - M1 - in his car since new. We all know the answer to that, but I'd bet a lot of people don't. Those people are the same who think synthetic is synthetic, and M1 is the creme de la creme. I told him that M1 wasn't really fully synthetic, but was an excellent oil, and that if he planned to change his oil so frequently to use any brand name oil. I mentioned people on this site who routinely run regular M1 to 10k+, which resulted in a curious look from him.

It's too tough to explain, and I'm not the best speaker, so I don't mention SM-rated or anything else, since most brand names you'll find in an auto parts store are all SM-rated, and will all work perfectly fine for him for a 3-5k OCI. If he wanted to go further, there's no need to ask me; send off a sample for analysis and let them tell you. Before I found this site, sending off a sample for UOA was recommended to me by the guy at the local independent parts store. That was the seed for learning for me. I never try to seem overly knowledgeable when I talk to my friends and family (unless it's something simple and I know they don't care to hear more). I tell them about this place, what I've learned, and how they can figure out what will work for them, and for how long - UOA.


Cool, man.
10.gif
I'm in a similar bought as you. Sounds like you are being smart about it.

The S10 isn't a comfortable ride after what has been done to it. '70s 1/2 ton axles, lockers and 37" Swampers = you're not riding on a cloud. :-P
Still fun to drive though, especially when the weather gets bad.

The Solstice is an absolute blast to drive. It is funny you mentioned the reliability part because I was just reading a car comparison the other day online (from a year ago or so maybe) and they placed the Solstice only trailing the Miata behind reliability in the roadster/small convertible class. I've heard of people with 80k+ going strong, so I'm not worried. Especially with SSO in the engine!
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: The Critic
With Amsoil, you must purchase the EaO oil filter in order for Amsoil to cover your engine for 1-year/15k for extended drains. While the filter is good, the EaO does cost around $15. If you do not use the EaO filter, any product guarantee is void.


That's just not true. You can use another filter with Amsoil and do extended drains, you just need to change that filter at the OEM recommended interval.

http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g1363.pdf

http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g1490.pdf

Interesting math in this thread.


Ahh you're right!

However, it doesn't make much sense to go that route though.
 
I know a wrote a lot up above, but I want to reiterate that my older Subaru consumed 1-1/2 qts of Rotella when I first switched from Castrol GTX HM. The Suby hasn't consumed anything at all since I last added at 1500 miles. I'm now at ~5k on this OCI.

I was actually worried, and the unusually high level of consumption made me want to changeout to grp II/II+ again, but I stuck with it and I'm glad I did.
 
Originally Posted By: inmate
Does Amsoil burn off alot compared to regular M1? I want to try Amsoil.


Amsoil actually has NOACK specs while M1 doesn't. Have you been using M1 and just want to try Amsoil? If I had to guess, I'd say Amsoil should burn/evaporate less. Their NOACK stats are very good. Which grade are you using?
 
Originally Posted By: inmate
Does Amsoil burn off alot compared to regular M1? I want to try Amsoil.


First of all
welcome2.gif


I've run both and Mobil 1 does burn off more quickly than the run of Amsoil I tired. Both were 5w-30 grades.

Bill
 
Originally Posted By: BeanCounter
Originally Posted By: cjhepburn
Oh, that's right another $10, so $8.99/qt.
I wish Amsoil would get rid of the pyramid-scheme distribution model and put the stuff on the shelves.
Not trying to derail, just a random thought.


You don't know much about what goes into business models and distribution chains, huh?
This is their business blueprint, and, again, if it works, why would they change it all to blend in with the rest of your run-of-the-mill oils on the shelves?

Hmmmm, distribution is part of marketing or are you saying that Amsoil cannot easily put their product on the shelves of AA and AZ?
But, you make a good point. My guess is that they do not have the budget to market their products and that would lead to dusty bottles on the shelves.
I still don't like the distribution model.
 
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: inmate
Does Amsoil burn off alot compared to regular M1? I want to try Amsoil.


First of all
welcome2.gif


I've run both and Mobil 1 does burn off more quickly than the run of Amsoil I tired. Both were 5w-30 grades.

Bill


Thankz, I'm using regular M1. I drive everyday for 5 days to school (about 50 miles total/day). M1 burns less than syntec, so I've been using M1. I have a prelude 01 and my grade is 5w-30. I want the good synthetic oil for my car and after reading many articles, I will try Pennzoil Platinum next. Tell me how fast PP burn off compared to M1.

Amsoil is the best but the price is way way wayyyy too much, and I think it will cost way much more with burn off.
 
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I have no problems with M1 burning off, as they say. M1 is one of the few oils that has the Honda HTO spec for their turbos. This spec is for high heat deposit control which is critical for turbos.PP has this spec, but not sure about Amsoil.
 
Originally Posted By: tig1
I have no problems with M1 burning off, as they say. M1 is one of the few oils that has the Honda HTO spec for their turbos. This spec is for high heat deposit control which is critical for turbos.PP has this spec, but not sure about Amsoil.


Amsoil claims that they meet the spec but they don't actually have the official spec.
 
pyramid-scheme: A pyramid scheme is a non-sustainable business model that involves the exchange of money primarily for enrolling other people into the scheme, often without any product or service being delivered. Pyramid schemes are a form of fraud.


Is for when there is no viable product. When I hear you guys say pyramid scheme it just shows your ignorance. Hence the word "Scheme"
Just because you guys are paranoid about being sold something don't bash a good product.

Call it for what it is Multi-level marketing.
I know this still has negative connotations but they are a totally different beast.
 
I ran both in CrownVic P71 taxi cabs for 2 different cab owners, and Amsoil cab had the odometer broke at 730k, so we would guess it had over a million miles on it: odometer broke in June 2005, our cabs average ~140k per annum. Both M1 and Amsoil had their oil changes after 15k, MC 820s filter $3.67 at Wal-Mart. M1 cab had 2 quarts added and Amsoil had less than 1. Both used M1 ATF with 80k CI and Amsoil severe gear oil with 100k CI. M1 cab had 490 k on odometer when I quit last summer. Both were 10W30 (manual calls for 5W20). Cabbies here don't pay for UOAs.. A lot of guys just add oil up to 50-60k before draining the oil, with cabs running up to 500-600k. Those are different engines from his Toyotas.

He could also try Mobil 1 Rewards:

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Rewards/Mobil_1_Rewards.aspx

As for filters, a lot of amateur hearsay was said. I could care less, caking helps.
 
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Originally Posted By: cjhepburn
Originally Posted By: BeanCounter
Originally Posted By: cjhepburn
Oh, that's right another $10, so $8.99/qt.
I wish Amsoil would get rid of the pyramid-scheme distribution model and put the stuff on the shelves.
Not trying to derail, just a random thought.


You don't know much about what goes into business models and distribution chains, huh?
This is their business blueprint, and, again, if it works, why would they change it all to blend in with the rest of your run-of-the-mill oils on the shelves?

Hmmmm, distribution is part of marketing or are you saying that Amsoil cannot easily put their product on the shelves of AA and AZ?
But, you make a good point. My guess is that they do not have the budget to market their products and that would lead to dusty bottles on the shelves.
I still don't like the distribution model.


I'm saying that their distribution chain and marketing platform are so different from your commercial brands that it would be a huge change.
I don't think it is that they couldn't fill shelves and sell, but I think that the construct of commercial oil competition is based on a great number of people's fractional product differentiation (in their minds).
Amsoil's business plan guarantees their marketing returns profitable sales. But it also isn't designed to benefit someone who walks in and stares at a bottle with no prior knowledge to understand the real differences. Their plan mediates these issues from the get-go.

Just my .02 anyway.
 
Originally Posted By: ThirdeYe
Originally Posted By: tig1
I have no problems with M1 burning off, as they say. M1 is one of the few oils that has the Honda HTO spec for their turbos. This spec is for high heat deposit control which is critical for turbos.PP has this spec, but not sure about Amsoil.


Amsoil claims that they meet the spec but they don't actually have the official spec.


I would presume this is because $$$.
They also meet my GM 4718 spec (I believe it is) but they aren't "certified" because they likely didn't pay GM the $$$ to "test" their oil and print their name on the list.
 
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