What makes Honda 4 cylinder engines great?

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: Scott_Tucker
Everything is computer modeled because it produces better results, not necessarily because it is cheaper. You get better prototypes out of the box.


Sometimes this is true and sometimes not.

It does seem that many companies are ONLY doing durability testing with CAD CAM and it simply cannot duplicate real life experiences accurately at this point in time. I think that is why we see so many failures in various components that in the past were very robust.

 

[Scott_Tucker]

I think we are seeing just the opposite. Back in the 80's it was nearly unheard of for a car not needing some major repair before 100,000 miles.This included the engine and other parts of the car. I had a 2004 Mazda Tribute that I drove to 110k miles with only oil changes and filters. There is no way that would have happened in the 80's and before. As far as durability testing, I think they are doing just as much. However, they can't test under all conditions. Same as before.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: edhackett
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
[Everything is computer modeled now first, and then built and tested. Because it is cheaper!


Everything is computer modeled now first, and then built and tested. Because it is cheaper!

Fixed that for you Steve.

Ed


Good edit, Ed!

Anyone can see just by looking around them that the bean counters are running the car industry.

No one can dispute the facts that cars are better than ever, but the DETAILS of those cars are getting cheaper each model year under relentless pressure for lower costs.

 

[SLCraig]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: edhackett
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
[Everything is computer modeled now first, and then built and tested. Because it is cheaper!


Everything is computer modeled now first, and then built and tested. Because it is cheaper!

Fixed that for you Steve.

Ed


Good edit, Ed!

Anyone can see just by looking around them that the bean counters are running the car industry.

No one can dispute the facts that cars are better than ever, but the DETAILS of those cars are getting cheaper each model year under relentless pressure for lower costs.


I guess "better" is relative. I don't think all cars are getting better, most are getting worse honestly. Cars may be more efficient and all that, but I don't think they are necessarily more reliable, etc. Most new cars are super plasticky and don't exactly instill confidence in their longevity. Cars built even in the 90's all feel better made to me. (Especially Japanese, they were at their height then)

 

[SteveSRT8]

We are saying the same thing, just different details.

I completely agree that the trend seems cheaper in general. When I said "better" I was speaking to reliability and longevity of the vehicle as a whole.

It's the details that get cheapened. If they sell 100k units a 50 cents savings becomes significant!

 

[SLCraig]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
I was speaking to reliability and longevity of the vehicle as a whole.


As was I, I still think they are worse now than they were 10-15 years ago.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: SLCraig
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
I was speaking to reliability and longevity of the vehicle as a whole.


As was I, I still think they are worse now than they were 10-15 years ago.


Understood.

My viewpoint is definitely skewed because of the amount of fleet vehicles I maintain, which are all trucks. My cars tend to be track rats and/or garage queens and as such are not relevant to daily drivers.

I can definitely assure you that trucks have improved tremendously in overall longevity and reliability, that is for sure.

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: Scott_Tucker
I think we are seeing just the opposite. Back in the 80's it was nearly unheard of for a car not needing some major repair before 100,000 miles.This included the engine and other parts of the car. I had a 2004 Mazda Tribute that I drove to 110k miles with only oil changes and filters. There is no way that would have happened in the 80's and before. As far as durability testing, I think they are doing just as much. However, they can't test under all conditions. Same as before.


[censored]. I had a 1986 Mustang with the 2.3L 4 in it. Was my first car (and beat on regularly). Bought it with 58k. At 100k I did have to do the valve seals as it would smoke you out at a stop light. Not sure if that was because of previous owner neglect, poor oil or my driving. At 175k I had to junk it because of the body. That was in 2005. It wasn't.my daily driver but it still started up every time. I kept it for sentimental reasons.

Inherited my Mom's 1987 Escort with just under 100k. Took that to 120k before I traded that in on something else. No major issues and it still had the original clutch.

So, yes even in the 80s cars would make it well into 100k. Proper maintenance is the key.

 

[AVB]

Originally Posted By: Christopher Hussey
Originally Posted By: JetStar
This could also be expanded to include Japanese in-line 4 cyl motorcycle engines. Hp per liter and reliability / durability is largely unmatched and available at a reasonable cost. Perhaps there is a relationship?


Yup. Superior (and often simplified) engineering is the key.


I didn't read all 8 pages so someone else may have mentioned this.

I was watching the movie Fastest and one of the Yamaha engineers said that after WWII the US would not let Japan buid airplanes. So all of Japan's would be aviation engineers went into motorcycle and car production instead.

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: SLCraig
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
I was speaking to reliability and longevity of the vehicle as a whole.


As was I, I still think they are worse now than they were 10-15 years ago.



Agreed.

I think "reliability and durability" was at its peak in the mid to late 80s through the mid 90s maybe with most models.

With all the increasingly complicated electronic [censored] (and that is what it is...it adds NO honest value to the vehicle itself ) it the most serious issue with longevity because when this gizmo garbage has issues or fails outright it will be so expensive to repair you will need to junk the car.

I say give me a mid 80s to mid 90s Honda, Toyota, or Mazda. They were the highest quality, most reliable, AND the most durable as well.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: AVB
Originally Posted By: Christopher Hussey
Originally Posted By: JetStar
This could also be expanded to include Japanese in-line 4 cyl motorcycle engines. Hp per liter and reliability / durability is largely unmatched and available at a reasonable cost. Perhaps there is a relationship?


Yup. Superior (and often simplified) engineering is the key.


I didn't read all 8 pages so someone else may have mentioned this.

I was watching the movie Fastest and one of the Yamaha engineers said that after WWII the US would not let Japan buid airplanes. So all of Japan's would be aviation engineers went into motorcycle and car production instead.


Same sort of scenario as BMW then, if that is the case.

 

[SLCraig]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Originally Posted By: SLCraig
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
I was speaking to reliability and longevity of the vehicle as a whole.


As was I, I still think they are worse now than they were 10-15 years ago.



Agreed.

I think "reliability and durability" was at its peak in the mid to late 80s through the mid 90s maybe with most models.

With all the increasingly complicated electronic [censored] (and that is what it is...it adds NO honest value to the vehicle itself ) it the most serious issue with longevity because when this gizmo garbage has issues or fails outright it will be so expensive to repair you will need to junk the car.

I say give me a mid 80s to mid 90s Honda, Toyota, or Mazda. They were the highest quality, most reliable, AND the most durable as well.


Yes sir, this sums me up to a tee.
But add in Nissan too, their 90's cars were amazingly good.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: SLCraig
But add in Nissan too, their 90's cars were amazingly good.


I had a 1995 Nissan 4x4 truck that was hard to beat. The dash layout was perfect. Very simple, very clear to read, and still car-like in its look and feel. The dash was hard plastic, but it was a thick plastic, and didn't look or feel particularly cheap. The KA24E engine was tough as a boot and the 5-speed manual, though a hair sloppy, was trusty in its operation.

It remains one of my favorites of the vehicles I've owned. Every now and again, I look at 96-97 Nissan trucks on Craiggers.

 

[artificialist]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: SLCraig
But add in Nissan too, their 90's cars were amazingly good.


I had a 1995 Nissan 4x4 truck that was hard to beat. The dash layout was perfect. Very simple, very clear to read, and still car-like in its look and feel. The dash was hard plastic, but it was a thick plastic, and didn't look or feel particularly cheap. The KA24E engine was tough as a boot and the 5-speed manual, though a hair sloppy, was trusty in its operation.

It remains one of my favorites of the vehicles I've owned. Every now and again, I look at 96-97 Nissan trucks on Craiggers.

I find that the 1991-1994 Sentra was excellent, but the ones from 1995-2004 were not good.

 

[SLCraig]

Originally Posted By: artificialist
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: SLCraig
But add in Nissan too, their 90's cars were amazingly good.


I had a 1995 Nissan 4x4 truck that was hard to beat. The dash layout was perfect. Very simple, very clear to read, and still car-like in its look and feel. The dash was hard plastic, but it was a thick plastic, and didn't look or feel particularly cheap. The KA24E engine was tough as a boot and the 5-speed manual, though a hair sloppy, was trusty in its operation.

It remains one of my favorites of the vehicles I've owned. Every now and again, I look at 96-97 Nissan trucks on Craiggers.

I find that the 1991-1994 Sentra was excellent, but the ones from 1995-2004 were not good.


The SE-L in 98-99 was a great car, I tried to find one for a while, not happening, and the SE2.0 in 2000-2001 (only 2001 in Canada) was also great. Why? It was one of the last cars to get the beloved (by me at least) SR20 engine.
I also was and will always be very fond of the Maximas throughout all of the 90's, especially the first generation VQ30 starting in 1995. Z32 is one of the greatest looking cars of all time, Infiniti J30 was ahead of its time and ultra reliable.. Etc, etc.

An inside peek of why I would prefer to live stuck in the 90's. Problem is around here all the great cars from that era are rotten away....