What do you guys think about Royal Purple oil?

[kalbri]

Thank you for the info Terry, I was looking for that clarification and I put BTT (Back To Top) to move the thread back up to see if I could get any responses to my last inquiry in that thread. I first saw BTT used on JeepsUnlimited.com

Royal Purple is doing the same thing as Mobil 1 does then, right? Mobil 1 bottles used to always say 100% synthetic, exclusive of carrier oil (or something like that), meaning that the base oil is 100% synthetic but the additive carrier oil is not. Appx. what % synthetic does this make these oils then?

 

[Terry]

Wish David Canitz of RP could answer this for you.

If I were to guess it would be 80%. The rest is made up of additives and the synerlec stuff. THe carrier or diluent oils are Iso-parraffinc or hydrocracked oils.

RP guys lurking please clarify if I am way off base.

 

[kalbri]

BTT

 

[Chris A]

I had an email conversation with David last week and was going to post some of that info, so I guess this thread is as good as any.

I was trying to find out a "ballpark" percentage of synthetic oil in the total oil of RP, as well as trying to understand why it is labeled a "blend" on the FAQ while I have read in many forums that the mineral oil is used as a carrier oil for the additives. I was trying to get a range of about 10% (ie 70% - 80%) for the amount of synthetics that make up the oil. Here is the reply I got:

quote:

---

Royal Purple starts with a Group IV basestock but since the additive packages that we buy and also manufacture in house contain Group I oils as diluents, we choose to take the high marketing stance and not to use a play on works to try and get market share. The actual ratio or percentages are proprietary and not available.

---

He also said (in general about oils):

quote:

---

Motor oils consist of roughly 75%-85% base oil and 15%-25% additive technology. The additives are usually a metallic ash or solid powder that is dissolved in a carrier oil or diluent oil. In a volume of “additives’ as much as 90% of the volume may consist of the oil used to carry the additives. In most cases, the oil used is a Group I conventional solvent refined mineral oil.

---

So, maybe I can assume from that RP is about 75% - 85% group IV.

He also sent me a recent (3/02) spec sheet of their street oils which includes the 5w20, 5w30 and 10w30 SL oils. Interesting that the flash is up to 455* (from 400*), but the TBN is down to 7 (from 10.5). Anyway, here are the specs:

code:

---

Test 5w20 5w30 10w30

cSt@40C 49.5 65.3 70.3

cSt@100C 8.7 11.0 10.7

VI 156 161 141

Flash Point 455 455 455

Fire Point 480 480 480

TBN 8.0 7.0 7.0

---

I asked about the changes with the flash and TBN and here is the response:

quote:

---

In general, physical properties such as flash and pour points are largely dependent on the type of base stock. However, RP uses some unique additive chemistry that actually has very low VI’s which tend to reduce our overall VI numbers. The performance in motor oils for anti-wear, detergency/disperscency, corrosion protection, anti-foam, oxidation resistance, TBN, TAN is largely the result of additive packages. But be careful, more is not necessarily better. Just because you have a larger TBN value does not indicate a better performing oil. It’s not that simple. TBN is used to neutralize combustion acids. However, since the refineries are being forced by the government to remove the contaminants in the fuels (sulfurs, heavy metal, etc.), the newer oils do not require the amount of TBN that they did say 5 years ago. Running an oil that is “over based” with higher levels of TBN than required could result in increased valve deposits and ring deposits. TBN is usually made using some form of a sulfonate, such as a calcium sulfonate. These are actually solids (powders) that are dissolved into the diluent oils. This can cause higher “ash” levels which mean that when the oil is burned, it will leave a certain percentage of ash deposit.

---

Also, here is his quote about their FAQ:

quote:

---

The FAQ that is on our website was developed by a marketing group several years ago. Unfortunately, it’s not what I consider the best information and is being updated in the very near future.
The marketing group that developed the FAQ felt that the average consumer would not be educated in lubricant terms to realize the difference in a diluent oil or carrier oil versus a Group I, Group II or Group III HVHI Hydrocracked oils or the Group IV (Synthetic Hydrocarbons) or Group V (All other synthetic types).

---

I also wanted to say that David seems to me to be a real stand up guy and has replied to all of my emails in detail and in a timely fashion. IMHO, he does not just work for RP, but he really believes in it.

[ July 18, 2002, 10:40 AM: Message edited by: Chris A ]

 

[BOBISTHEOILGUY]

I think that most all of use believe in what we use/sell otherwise, we would/should quit. Not saying he isn't a standup guy, it really is good to see people like that in the industry there to help and assist in questions. This is primarly my business, to be there, assist, and help with any questions, likewise, johnny, widman,and many others.

We also have an RP rep jumping online here as well, PRRPILL, which like a lot of us, has been online for years now doing the same thing.

Anyway, Looks good. David seems to know what he was talking about when it comes to percentages, but bear in mind that not all companies follow that exactly by no means as many already know. Also keep in mind that percentage of what type of base oil used is really not that much help when considering over all performance of an oil. Do analysis, in the end, all will show the truth. Wish we had some RP analysis on the board.

 

[Chris A]

quote:

---

Originally posted by BOBISTHEOILGUY:
I think that most all of use believe in what we use/sell otherwise, we would/should quit.

---

Bob, I agree with you that they should, but too many times I've asked questions to people (tech/product support or for product info) and have only been given the info they have on a piece of paper in front of them. They also gave me the impression that they did not want to learn more than what was on that piece of paper in front of them.

 

[Bror Jace]

A forum participant e-mailed me privately to ask me why I held my particular (low) opinion of Royal Purple. I referred him to this thread as I think it spells my views out out rather clearly. The only info that is NOT included above are some of the rather unspectacular test results posted in the oil analysis section.

Anyway, I'd thought I'd "up" this thread and see if some of the unanswered questions above will get addressed.

As we all know, we have new participants every week here.

--- Bror Jace

 

[Patman]

We do have new participants every week, but we are also missing some too, such as PRRPILL who hasn't posted in a while. I haven't seen Terry Dyson post in a while either, and I sent him a check for my upcoming oil analysis over a week and a half ago and haven't heard back yet, which is getting me worried since I want to take the sample on Sept 8th.

 

[MolaKule]

Maybe we should have a separate thread on "Synthetics" but if you look at:

http://www.schaefferoil.com/msds/156.html

This shows that the PAO synthetic base is 70-75% of the total WEIGHT (mass) of the mixture, with an additive package that comprizes about 25-30% of the rest. No esters are listed, and with the AW/FM package their using, they don't need one.

I do know that Redline uses a large percentage of Pentaeritytrol (PE) esters which is about the best polyol ester base one can find. This is why their oils are worth the price of admission.

Carrier Oils:

Carrier oils are usually group II or II+ oils and are used only for dissolving the additive package into the base oil. Most additive packages come in a liquid form prepackaged from the additive company from which your purchasing. Some synthetic base producers can also prepackage the additive package before they send it to you, such as HATCO.

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

Molakule , I guess we are getting

here thats ok

but do you know what else they use as base stocks? Different esters? PAO? And about what amounts of the PE? I thought someone previously said they must have only a small amount because a gallon is insanely expensive. But they were basing that on jet engine oil, so who knows... Also where could one get that info and any more info about them? I remember you mentioned something about an aluminum complex FM as well.
Thanks!

 

[Patman]

quote:

---

Originally posted by carl97ss:
patman, be patient with terry. we all know he's a great guy and offers consistant world class service

. i spoke to him yesterday and he just got back from a business trip to europe. I'm sure he's backed-up a bit.

---

Don't worry, I won't use anyone else for my analysis other than Terry! I'm glad to hear he's back, so I should recieve my kit in time to take my sample now. I have a free sample kit that I got from Blackstone which I can always use just to take the sample with (obviously I won't send it to Blackstone though!)

 

[Terry]

Once again guys RP racing and street oils are solid products,don't be afraid to try them. Like Paul Fix noted they are used in real racing cars out of the bottle not tricked like other brands.The reps for the company are super good folks but very protective of the formulation.

Amazing that Moly has been a big issue for the past year(mostly due to Bob) and now in the past 3 months we are seing 50 pppm in certain formulations. BIG OIL GUYS read this board dudes.

Someone on a another discussion mentioned oils working better in different engines. I call it "engine/oil combo" and it's true some engines do better with differing formulations. The only way to really know is analysis.

Patman, lossen those shorts, the kit was mailed 8/25 and is probably going through Canuck customs as I write. I emailed you also. Thanks for the vote of confidence.

Terry

[ August 29, 2002, 02:40 PM: Message edited by: Terry ]

 

[Patman]

Thanks again Terry! I just didn't want to delay putting in my Schaeffers any longer, I've waited so long already since I've had the oil in my basement for well over a month now!

It's great to know that big wigs at the oil companies are reading this board, they can certainly learn what enthusiasts want in their motor oil by reading our thoughts here! Just think folks, we're having an effect on oils that will be sold all around the country, and all around the world!

 

[wtd]

A guy I work with uses Royal Purple and swears by it. I think he also sells it because he gave me a bunch of literature about it and said if I ever wanted to try it, just let him know. I may try it some day.

Wayne

 

[dragboat]

I call Terry and tell him I need kits,I put the check in the mail the same day,always receive the kits sooner than I think the check gets there,,please remember customs is a problem and Terry is out of town quite a bit.

I sent a sample to Terry that took a while to get it back but there was no rush,if Terry is out of town,makes a difference in time but then he works non stop to get caught up,a small price to pay "a bit extra time"and for the sevice he provides in my opinion. Anyway,thinking a head on ordering kits never hurts,thats why I ordered so many They are here and ready for my whims I get sometimes

Terry is not the Blackstone,he is out there in the field as well

Quote:
"Someone on a another discussion mentioned oils working better in different engines. I call it "engine/oil combo" and it's true some engines do better with differing formulations. The only way to really know is analysis"

Exactly!

[ August 29, 2002, 09:31 PM: Message edited by: dragboat ]

 

[MolaKule]

"but do you know what else they use as base stocks? Different esters? PAO? And about what amounts of the PE? I thought someone previously said they must have only a small amount because a gallon is insanely expensive. But they were basing that on jet engine oil, so who knows... Also where could one get that info and any more info about them? I remember you mentioned something about an aluminum complex FM as well."

I don't know the exact proprotions since they are closely guraded and I haven't run any NMR or GC test to find out, so only a published patent disclosure could really reveal the makeup, assuming they actually filed for one. I also think they may use TMP as well as the PE esters. Both esters are high stability esters with excellent anti-oxidation capabilities.

I believe the aluminum in Redline's additive package to be an alkyoxyl aluminum AW chemical, based on industry papers.

And yes, the PE esters are expensive and are the primary bases in Jet Turbine engines.

 

[carl97ss]

patman, be patient with terry. we all know he's a great guy and offers consistant world class service

. i spoke to him yesterday and he just got back from a business trip to europe. I'm sure he's backed-up a bit.

 

[williar]

This RP reminds me of Union Oil's Royal Trition purple-colored motor oil sold years ago, including the hype. Hope it's a little better quality!

 

[Patman]

quote:

---

Originally posted by YZF150:
What brought this one back from the dead? Why, of a sudden, is it on page one of the current posts?

---

I bet I know who did it!

[ July 15, 2003, 10:19 AM: Message edited by: Patman ]

 

[YZF150]

Why? It started out as a major slam fest. We don't need another one of those going on, do we?