What are we using for chain lube?

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quote:

Originally posted by Mackelroy:
Everyone should give the dry stuff a shot just to satisfy the curiosity, I remember a couple years ago trying DRY on MC chain, But I did'nt see any fantastic results, no doubt if you want no residue on your chain it's an idea, if it starts squeaking then you know it isnt holding up too good.

SO, if you don't hear a squeak, the lube is working?

quote:

Originally posted by Mackelroy:
Jaybird, If the chain didnt have those little cyliners to rotate meshing into the CS sprocket , it would have wear at much quicker rate.

Ya think? Maybe that is why they were desinged that way. I don't know how to better explain this engineering fact to you. You seem to think that no matter what your CS sprocket is going to wear out. I'm telling you that if I had the chain that came off the worn sprocket and the sprockets themselves, I could show you exatly what your flaw was and WHY the CS sprocekt wore prematurely. It was not because of one lube working and another lube not working.
As you eluded to.

quote:

Originally posted by Mackelroy:
They still wear even as a Norm.

No, mackelroy, they do not wear out before your chain has stretched, unless there is bad adjustment. I know you have surmized this since you had one that wore out, but it was not a normal event. You had something wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by Mackelroy:
We do disagree, and I sometimes wonder if you are comparing a conveyor belt chain sprockets to MC chain and sprockets , 2 very different worlds.

Well, you can wonder all you want, but there is absolutely NO difference in the conveyor belt sprocket world and the motorcycle sprocket world. Both are conveyors. And both use the same engineering criteria for design. What is different are the variables and factors used for each individual type of drive. Perhaps you could share with us what how the "two worlds" differ?

quote:

Originally posted by Mackelroy:
Being a field repair tech in the business equipment industry and working on thousands of machines over many years, I havent replaced more than a couple chains in that arena in all that time.

So, why in the world have you involved yourself with a chain and sprocket thread? How could you possibly have much to add if it's something you have very little experience with?
Amazing.
 
How is the Schaeffers 227 Moly Roller Chain Lube at protecting the chain from rust? I ride in the rain quite a bit and often park the bike outside a hotel in the rain after an all day rainy ride.

I've been using PJ1 Blue for years with very good results, but have to be sure to reapply it at the end of a wet ride or else the chain can develop some rust by morning. I then get into the escalating problem of accumulated gunk on the chain which attracts dirt. I sure could use something that attracts less dirt, but only if it still gives me heavy duty water protection.
 
Lorenzo, kawasaki fogging oil (storage oil)
We use it on the chains of our enduro bikes, no rust, no kinks.

When traveling on chain bikes I would brush a small amount (think size of a pea) of clear grease or vasoline on the inner run of the chain (it'll migrate around on it's own) each night. A small tube and a toothbrush in a ziploc was easier to store than a can. The chains I lubed this way always gave me good milage and stayed way cleaner than the tacky products, never had a rust problem but avoided the rain.
 
Ford Motor Company's maintenance used to have a PM (preventive maintenance) schedule that included lubricating overhead conveyor drive chains with grease.

They had a paint brush and a coffee can of grease at every drive unit. (a mfg facility could have hundreds of these drives)

The maintenance folks I work with at a couple of Ford facilities were changing out drive chains about once every six months. These drive chains are standard #120 roller chains with attachments that pull the overhead conveyor chain.
Just to let you know how big an issue this was, these chains were costing them about $600-700 a pop, and remember one plant has many of these items that were being changed out twice a year.

I showed the maintenance staffs how lubricating with grease was wasting their time, and costing them money. Lots of money.
Grease is oil whipped up into a thick paste by mixing the oil with a soap base, such as lithium, or calcium.
For the oil, that has been applied to the outside of a chain in the form of grease, to effectively lubricate it has to first seperate from the soap base, and then migrate to the friction points.
Problem is, it takes a loooong time for the grease to seperate from the soap base. Longer than the six months it took for the chain to wear and elongate...which in turn wore the drive side sprockets, which would also have to be changed out with the new drive chain. (~$200 a pop)
This was not counting the cost of the maintenance staff that took two men to change each drive chain and sprocket. Union labor aint cheap.
And in the case of the conveyor itself...if a drive chain is elongating at an accelerated rate, so does the conveyor chain it is meshing with. And endless circle of wear.
And depending on how long the line is...you could be talking in the six figures of accelerated wear happening.
A serious issue for the auto mfg that has to answer to stock holders.

I showed them how by simply changing their method and product, they could save literally thousands, and thousands of dollars each year.
I first had to convince them that the grease was doing absolutely no good at all. Which talk alone wasn't getting it done. (imagine that)
I had to have them physically break apart a working drive chain to show them that there was simply NO lubrication making it to the friction points...however the outside of the chain was NEVER going to rust.

After an automatic system that provides a periodic lube of dry-film lubricant to the drive chain, their chains were lasting and lasting.
The maintenance staff was convinced that a change in plan was needed.
But I was not the only one around the country helping them to smarten up...because soon all Ford plants had a manditory specification that requires automatic lubrication to all overhead drive chains with dry-film lubricant.

The results of changing method and product was amazing. Money was immediately saved.
However, I found that there were still conveyors in some areas that were still having drive chains wear out abnormally fast.
When I looked into the situatiuon, I found that some of the drive chains were being adjusted incorrrectly, which was causing pre-mature wear and failure. The particular drive I first encountered like this was having the drive chain changed out every 30 days, even with auto lube with dry-film!

I instructed the maintenance man responsible for that drive how to properly align and tension the chain....and 3 years later the very same chain was still on the drive and well within spec.
That line was actually torn out before the chain could wear to a point of needing replacement.

BTW...Ford now specifies dry-film lubrication on all of their overhead conveyor systems around the globe. as does GM, Crysler, and Toyota.
Many still don't have a clue...but the big boys paid attention.
 
So Jaybird, as asked by RiverRat, what dry-film lubricant should we use on our motorcycle chains then?

I'm willing to give this a shot. I've got a huge 630 o-ring chain to keep alive (OEM 1982 GPz750, same chain as the Kawasaki police bikes use), and I'm tired of the mess.

Do you have preferred dry-film lubes for both street and dirt?
 
This is unbelievable...
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FOUR PAGES about P-E-E-frederickan chain lube~!
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Good thing you guys didn't get started on the environmental effects of cross pollenation of dandelions or something such.
tongue.gif


Dan
 
Motorcycle chain lubrication is still in the stone age.
It's time folks got a bit of skewlin'.
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I do realize though that the subject is far from as mesmerizing and intersting as reading and commenting on zinc levels and TBN's.
LOL...
smile.gif
 
Some dry-film lube manufacturers will recommend that you wait until you hear noise or "squeaking" coming from the chain before you re-apply lubricant. We do not recommend this method because once you can hear noise coming from the friction surfaces, wear is definitely taking place. We recommend you re-apply lubricant after every two hours of riding, or between every moto when racing.

___________________________________

I appoligise for not having the mouth of a good salesman. I pulled this from that site link you gave. How often does this stuff have to be applied? by the above statement its lube properties subside rather quickly.

Street riding I have much greater distances to cover without relubing, the above statement goes hand in hand when a tried dry lube a couple years ago, doesn't hold up very long.
 
Well I picked up a can of DuPont Multi-use Dry Lubricant (8 oz can for five bucks) as mentioned by Bobio, from Loew's today and put a spray of it on my Honda Shadow Spirit chain. Looks like I didn't do anything but I have faith in those recommending it. I think I will apply a shot to some of the firearms I work on. I will be able to feel it work on them. I don't expect much rust protection on the chain or the firearms but I will be satisfied if it will just reduce friction and wear.
Doc
 
((So, why in the world have you involved yourself with a chain and sprocket thread? How could you possibly have much to add if it's something you have very little experience with?))

More so, it does show experience, that enviornment had very little chain wear and several chains in each unit (no real wear issue), the fact that auto manufacturing were using heavy grease on chains and blocking the ability to penetrate,that speaks for itself.

On MC chain world is different, yeh chains and sprockets are normal maintence they work in very unprotected enviornments.

What really got you going was after 3 rk's in 25,000 miles on my Hooligan bike, I switched to a heavier Regina, and that chain is half way past beating all 3 of those rk's on longevity combined, same ajustment play , the chain just doesn't move.

You'd have me in a RK again and dry Lube.

My pocketbook is closed.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Jaybird:
Ihad heard that Honda discontinued that Red can lube. Hope not. It is the best stuff they had.

Jaybird,

Looks like I found a dealer with a stash of HP Chain Lube in the Red can. They currently have 15 cans on their shelves, purchased two. Should last me a while
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I would have ordered more but, I am not sure of the shelf life of this stuff...

I still haven't heard back from Honda as to the official status of it though as I am getting conflicting information from various Honda dealers.

Honda Performance Chain Lube

 -
 
How many are still using NON o-ring chains on their bikes? The factory story was great for non oring chains. Islavistaman, I'm with you on the 630, those are monsters , my 82 suzie has one, proabaly uses 5hp to turn it.
 
Mackelroy,
The recommendations you quoted me on were being suggested for off-road and motocross riding.

You can usually feel comfortable with ~300-500 mi. application schedule for street riding, depending upon conditions.

Dry-films last far longer than petroleum chain lubes.
Petroleum films must are constantly being degraded by centrifugal force and heat, until they are no longer adequate, and can't keep the metals from shearing off.

When there is friction on a moly lubed surface, the layer that shears before the metal is the layer of moly platelets. Being polar in nature, these sheard-off molecules of moly immediately re-adhere themselves to any available space at the friction point, where they are again ready to protect.
 
Jaybird, do you know of an spray dry film lube that has a carrier solvent that doesn't rinse away oil film and leave metal to rust? Had this problem with a couple products. thanks
 
MoS2 tends to act as an anti-oxidant, and most moly rich sprays do a good job of protecting metal surfaces.

The red can Pro Honda product, that is discussed above, was the only "spray" that I knew of that was moly rich and also had addtional oils in the package. There may well be others, but probably not marketed as a moto product.

We do not at present provide our dry-films in an aerosol. However we do provide addtional synthetic oils for protection from oxidation and to help keep sealing rings supple.

Many chain makers are providing chains with either coated or stainless sideplates. These are good choices if you worry lots about the asthetics of the chain.

If I wash a chain after riding, I lube it.
If I put the bike up after riding, I lube the chain prior to putting it up.
I never have rusty chains.
 
jaybird, thanks, I have some suzuki brand chain lube that is thick with moly, but is far from "dry". The application I was having trouble with (not chains) needs to be free of oil or anything that dust would stick to. Most the stuff I have either have an light oil carrier, or a solvent carrier. Guess I'm getting off topic here.
 
Solvent carrier lubes will usually evaporate to a semi-dry state that tends to not attract dirt.

Like I already stated, some are fortified with sytnthetic oils that will protect from corrosion.

Look at WD-40...a solvent based carrier, evaporates leaving a non-dirt attracting film that protects from corrosion. Just like dry-films.
What a good dry-film will do that WD-40 can't, is effectively lubricate the chain, and keep the rings of a sealed chain supple.
 
New one on me, thread length police. Hmm just so we don't offend, fuel tanker man can you provide us with an approved list of topics that are permitted to go 5 pages?

Thanks

Bob

[ September 27, 2005, 01:19 PM: Message edited by: Bobio ]
 
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