Low quality chain is my guess.
Terrible luck with motorcycle chain longevity.
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The red powder sounds like what you see when o-rings fail. Could you have damaged them by brushing the chain? Perhaps dirt damaged them?
And as has been mentioned, 15mm sounds too tight.
Also when it comes to buying a good chain, it's about the chain model not the brand. Try a high end chain.
External chain lube isn't necessary for good chain life in dry conditions. A scrupulously clean chain will last longest--though depending on your riding, that may not be possible. If the lube is attracting dirt and becoming grinding paste it may not be helping.
That said I've done OK running a chain oiler, with dirty oil accumulating on the chain. Not great chain life (but great compared to yours), but very good life for the minimal amount of maintenance it required and not too bad for a bike that would be out in all conditions.
When I can though I'll just clean the chain regularly with WD40 (helps to clean and keeps the orings from drying out), and not use any lube.
And as has been mentioned, 15mm sounds too tight.
Also when it comes to buying a good chain, it's about the chain model not the brand. Try a high end chain.
External chain lube isn't necessary for good chain life in dry conditions. A scrupulously clean chain will last longest--though depending on your riding, that may not be possible. If the lube is attracting dirt and becoming grinding paste it may not be helping.
That said I've done OK running a chain oiler, with dirty oil accumulating on the chain. Not great chain life (but great compared to yours), but very good life for the minimal amount of maintenance it required and not too bad for a bike that would be out in all conditions.
When I can though I'll just clean the chain regularly with WD40 (helps to clean and keeps the orings from drying out), and not use any lube.
I was always taught that a loose chain is a happy chain and the looser end of spec is always a better bet. Go towards the looser end of the free play allowance and I bet the chain will last a little longer. Notice I said a little... Even with the chain way too tight, it shouldn't be dying that soon. Try a different but well-respected brand of chain like DiD or Regina.
I have set tension on the tight end once or twice now I try to leave a bit more slack; previously used Liquid Wrench Chain & Cable Lube on my other chain drive bike (Suzuki GZ250)...went on clean but didn't last too long (reapplied every 200-250 miles); now I use Maxima Chain Wax...apply a bit heavy & let the excess fling off; cleaning is more laborious yet application intervals goes longer (350-400 miles)
Run the chain as loose as the spec calls for, not on the tight side, in this case 25mm. Use WD40 to clean the chain occasionally. The real lube is sealed in.
I only run Tsubaki chains, unless the bike is so old that they don't have a spec. Factory sprockets, except the desert/race bikes.
Just because you see some slung off rust powder from plate wear and sprocket wear, it's not time to pitch the chain until it won't spec right for stretch measurements.
I only run Tsubaki chains, unless the bike is so old that they don't have a spec. Factory sprockets, except the desert/race bikes.
Just because you see some slung off rust powder from plate wear and sprocket wear, it's not time to pitch the chain until it won't spec right for stretch measurements.
Originally Posted By: Reddy45
So I now wonder if this was just bad QC? With this being an x-ring chain, those rollers are sealed, so it's not like I neglected to put lube into those rollers (past the rings).
The center rollers are never sealed on any kind of O-ring chain that I've ever seen. The seal is on the pins between the side plates. But the chain stretch is not from roller wear, but rather from the pun wear that holds the links together. Lube on the rollers does help to keep the rollers and sprocket teeth from wearing.
So I now wonder if this was just bad QC? With this being an x-ring chain, those rollers are sealed, so it's not like I neglected to put lube into those rollers (past the rings).
The center rollers are never sealed on any kind of O-ring chain that I've ever seen. The seal is on the pins between the side plates. But the chain stretch is not from roller wear, but rather from the pun wear that holds the links together. Lube on the rollers does help to keep the rollers and sprocket teeth from wearing.
I ran a JT chain and sprocket on my NC700X when they first became available for that model, and a number of people on the NC700 forum did shortly thereafter. It was the worst quality, shortest-lived chain I’ve had on the bike, and was worse than any chain I’ve had on any non-dirt-bike in memory. A couple people had decent to good luck with the JT chains on the NCXs, but most everyone’s experience mirrored mine.
Just stay away from JT chains.
On a separate note, I have best chain durability when I run them at the very loose end of manufacturer slack spec.
If you want an auto-oiler, I suggest you try a Motobriiz. They’re simple, effective, inexpensive, and don’t drip.
Just stay away from JT chains.
On a separate note, I have best chain durability when I run them at the very loose end of manufacturer slack spec.
If you want an auto-oiler, I suggest you try a Motobriiz. They’re simple, effective, inexpensive, and don’t drip.
Do you see the lines running across the rollers? That means they aren't round any more. The rollers are junk along with the rest of the chain. DID X-ring chains are worth the money as are good steel sprockets.
Originally Posted By: Reddy45
Pic of the red dust from my chain. You can see how it's isolated to that pair of links, while the surrounding links look OK.
There were 2 additional link pairs that seemed to exhibit a similar issue, although to a lesser degree.
So I now wonder if this was just bad QC? With this being an x-ring chain, those rollers are sealed, so it's not like I neglected to put lube into those rollers (past the rings). And if 3 pairs of links have already worn to the point of blowing out rust, then this could also contribute to "stretch".
Originally Posted By: Reddy45
Pic of the red dust from my chain. You can see how it's isolated to that pair of links, while the surrounding links look OK.
There were 2 additional link pairs that seemed to exhibit a similar issue, although to a lesser degree.
So I now wonder if this was just bad QC? With this being an x-ring chain, those rollers are sealed, so it's not like I neglected to put lube into those rollers (past the rings). And if 3 pairs of links have already worn to the point of blowing out rust, then this could also contribute to "stretch".
I read through this and many people seem to have an idea.
What is being overlooked here is sprocket combinations. Certain sprocket combos will accelerate wear.
Proper chain maintenance should ensure every other tire change should be a chain & sprocket replacement.
1- Gearing Commander can check sprocket wear combinations.
2- Buy a good alignment tool, chain stop & riveting tool. Use them for your set up.
3- Measure chain slack sitting on the bike.
I lube my chain every other tank of gas.
I clean my chain every time I wash my bike.
What is being overlooked here is sprocket combinations. Certain sprocket combos will accelerate wear.
Proper chain maintenance should ensure every other tire change should be a chain & sprocket replacement.
1- Gearing Commander can check sprocket wear combinations.
2- Buy a good alignment tool, chain stop & riveting tool. Use them for your set up.
3- Measure chain slack sitting on the bike.
I lube my chain every other tank of gas.
I clean my chain every time I wash my bike.
Get the OEM chain and sprocket kit from Triumph. Make sure your rear tire is straight; don't trust the alignment marks on the swing arm. No tighter than 25mm, and 35 would be better.
Checking my notebooks, I've gotten between 24k and 32k miles on 8 Triumph chains using 1.5" (38mm) of slack. But perhaps I'm doing it wrong and should defer to what "you'd say."
Yeah you should defer. No personal experience or history with situation ... Yeah, uh huh, sure
I'm with you, more slack than the OP is using will work wonders. And the test is cheap - just try it. If it works well he'll know. If it's too sloppy, he'll know that too ...
I'm with you, more slack than the OP is using will work wonders. And the test is cheap - just try it. If it works well he'll know. If it's too sloppy, he'll know that too ...
Originally Posted By: SlipperyPete
Checking my notebooks, I've gotten between 24k and 32k miles on 8 Triumph chains using 1.5" (38mm) of slack. But perhaps I'm doing it wrong and should defer to what "you'd say."
"I'd say" is my opinion, just like everyone else's here. I've gotten similar chain mileage at 25 mm on a few bikes ... so 25 mm isn't too tight, and I don't have to worry about it flopping around or giving a sloppy drive train feeling, or needing to be adjusted often if it gets even more sloppy with a little wear. If I start at 25 mm and it gets to 30~35mm then it gets adjusted - but I'd never start off at 35~38 mm. Whatever works for you or anyone else, I'm just saying I wouldn't start off with the adjustment that sloppy for the reasons given.
Checking my notebooks, I've gotten between 24k and 32k miles on 8 Triumph chains using 1.5" (38mm) of slack. But perhaps I'm doing it wrong and should defer to what "you'd say."
"I'd say" is my opinion, just like everyone else's here. I've gotten similar chain mileage at 25 mm on a few bikes ... so 25 mm isn't too tight, and I don't have to worry about it flopping around or giving a sloppy drive train feeling, or needing to be adjusted often if it gets even more sloppy with a little wear. If I start at 25 mm and it gets to 30~35mm then it gets adjusted - but I'd never start off at 35~38 mm. Whatever works for you or anyone else, I'm just saying I wouldn't start off with the adjustment that sloppy for the reasons given.
Originally Posted by Reddy45
I've tried all sorts of lube. Most of the time it was Maxima chain wax or DuPont teflon, but I've also used motor oil or gear oil on occasion.
The factory manual says slack is 15-25mm, so I was always in that range when I adjusted the tensioners.
I have never seen anything like that red either, I use same DuPont Teflon chain saver and pretty happy with it, since it cleans and lubes.
It seems like dirt and grime with rust? No idea tough
I used JT sprockets and DID chain on my last chain/sprockets change and very happy with the set up.
I've tried all sorts of lube. Most of the time it was Maxima chain wax or DuPont teflon, but I've also used motor oil or gear oil on occasion.
The factory manual says slack is 15-25mm, so I was always in that range when I adjusted the tensioners.
I have never seen anything like that red either, I use same DuPont Teflon chain saver and pretty happy with it, since it cleans and lubes.
It seems like dirt and grime with rust? No idea tough
I used JT sprockets and DID chain on my last chain/sprockets change and very happy with the set up.
Read your manual for setting tightness but I bet it's around 25-35 mm.
Try vortex steel sprockets and rk or did chain.
Clean your chain with kerosene as it's oring x ring safe and recommended by manufactures.
Clean it every 300-600 km depending on how it looks.
Spray with DuPont Chain saver as it's o ring safe and doesn't fling off. Way better than any motorcycle chain lube I've used. Make sure to heat up the chain first.
Could be lots of dust/soil picked up by the oil and flung onto the block.
Try vortex steel sprockets and rk or did chain.
Clean your chain with kerosene as it's oring x ring safe and recommended by manufactures.
Clean it every 300-600 km depending on how it looks.
Spray with DuPont Chain saver as it's o ring safe and doesn't fling off. Way better than any motorcycle chain lube I've used. Make sure to heat up the chain first.
Could be lots of dust/soil picked up by the oil and flung onto the block.
Originally Posted by 02SE
15mm sounds tight to me too. On the loose side is better than too tight. I've seen lots of short life-span chains, and damaged countershaft bearings and seals, and some wheel bearings, from chains run too tight. I run all three of my high-powered streetbikes towards the loose end at around 30mm of slack, with the chain at it's tightest. Which is usually with my weight compressing the rear suspension.
Agree with the above. I have met riders who adjusted their slack on the centre stand with no weight. That will kill a chain. I run my DL650 at the top end of the slack spec. Also great advice to check your alignment.
Regarding chain maintenance, I've flipped to the dark side after chatting with a member on the stromtroopers forum who put 70,000 KM (~44,000 miles) on his original chain, and currently tracking towards 100,000 KM (~62,000 miles) on his current chain (same bike). His regiment? Never clean your chain, and lube with Wurth's HHS 2000 every time you fill up with gas (a 30 second process) and after each ride in the rain. That's it.
So I contacted Wurth Canada and had them ship me 3 bottles. The idea of never cleaning my chain again is liberating
And yes, don't cheap out. Buy a DID.
15mm sounds tight to me too. On the loose side is better than too tight. I've seen lots of short life-span chains, and damaged countershaft bearings and seals, and some wheel bearings, from chains run too tight. I run all three of my high-powered streetbikes towards the loose end at around 30mm of slack, with the chain at it's tightest. Which is usually with my weight compressing the rear suspension.
Agree with the above. I have met riders who adjusted their slack on the centre stand with no weight. That will kill a chain. I run my DL650 at the top end of the slack spec. Also great advice to check your alignment.
Regarding chain maintenance, I've flipped to the dark side after chatting with a member on the stromtroopers forum who put 70,000 KM (~44,000 miles) on his original chain, and currently tracking towards 100,000 KM (~62,000 miles) on his current chain (same bike). His regiment? Never clean your chain, and lube with Wurth's HHS 2000 every time you fill up with gas (a 30 second process) and after each ride in the rain. That's it.
So I contacted Wurth Canada and had them ship me 3 bottles. The idea of never cleaning my chain again is liberating
And yes, don't cheap out. Buy a DID.
Originally Posted by webfors
Originally Posted by 02SE
15mm sounds tight to me too. On the loose side is better than too tight. I've seen lots of short life-span chains, and damaged countershaft bearings and seals, and some wheel bearings, from chains run too tight. I run all three of my high-powered streetbikes towards the loose end at around 30mm of slack, with the chain at it's tightest. Which is usually with my weight compressing the rear suspension.
Agree with the above. I have met riders who adjusted their slack on the centre stand with no weight. That will kill a chain.
The chain slack spec is supposed to take any suspension movement into consideration if the engineer stating the spec did his homework.
Example: If the chain is supposed to be 25 mm of slack on the side stand, then there should be enough slack in the chain when the rear suspension is at the point where the chain slack is the least. If the chain is adjusted too tightly when on the side stand, then it's going to be too tight at the point the suspension makes the chain the least slack.
I've seen lots of guys on cycle chat boards remove their rear shock(s) and move the rear suspension to the point the chain is the tightest, then adjust the chain so it's not sloppy lose and has adequate slack at that point. Then reinstall the shock(s) and put the bike back on the side stand (or center stand, or swing arm stand) and see what the chain stack is ... that becomes the necessary chain slack when adjusting it on the side stand or center/swing arm stand. I'd think the engineers at the bike manufacturer were smart enough to go through that same kind of exercise before putting a chain slack spec in the owner's manual, but you never know.
Originally Posted by 02SE
15mm sounds tight to me too. On the loose side is better than too tight. I've seen lots of short life-span chains, and damaged countershaft bearings and seals, and some wheel bearings, from chains run too tight. I run all three of my high-powered streetbikes towards the loose end at around 30mm of slack, with the chain at it's tightest. Which is usually with my weight compressing the rear suspension.
Agree with the above. I have met riders who adjusted their slack on the centre stand with no weight. That will kill a chain.
The chain slack spec is supposed to take any suspension movement into consideration if the engineer stating the spec did his homework.
Example: If the chain is supposed to be 25 mm of slack on the side stand, then there should be enough slack in the chain when the rear suspension is at the point where the chain slack is the least. If the chain is adjusted too tightly when on the side stand, then it's going to be too tight at the point the suspension makes the chain the least slack.
I've seen lots of guys on cycle chat boards remove their rear shock(s) and move the rear suspension to the point the chain is the tightest, then adjust the chain so it's not sloppy lose and has adequate slack at that point. Then reinstall the shock(s) and put the bike back on the side stand (or center stand, or swing arm stand) and see what the chain stack is ... that becomes the necessary chain slack when adjusting it on the side stand or center/swing arm stand. I'd think the engineers at the bike manufacturer were smart enough to go through that same kind of exercise before putting a chain slack spec in the owner's manual, but you never know.
I had two of DID's best chains go south on me because of "O" ring failure, the rings split and depart shortly afterward. DID stepped up on the first one and replaced it after a month of emails back and forth. It had two thousand miles on it when the rings failed. The new chain had the "X" ring set up and it went south and spit rings at around 6K miles. DID seemed to think it was environmental problems because of my location since neither chain showed and wear and by appearance were well cared for. The red death at the missing rings was the first sign of malfunction.
I'm currently running a RK chain with a JT front and Sunstar rear. 6K miles and so far all the rings are in place and the chain has not required adjustment.
This is not a bad mouthing of DID, just relating experience.
Chain adjusted by disconnecting shock and aligning front sprocket, swing arm pivot, and rear axel.
YMMV
Smoky
I'm currently running a RK chain with a JT front and Sunstar rear. 6K miles and so far all the rings are in place and the chain has not required adjustment.
This is not a bad mouthing of DID, just relating experience.
Chain adjusted by disconnecting shock and aligning front sprocket, swing arm pivot, and rear axel.
YMMV
Smoky
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