What are we using for chain lube?

[Jaybird]

The clip is made of high quality spring steel.
If three things are checked properly, then you will have NO problems with a clip type master on ANY bike street or trail.

The clip MUST be completely flat. Check this on flat surface each and every time you mount.

The clip must not be bent at all. Make certain the forks are not seperated from being bent at the fold. If the clip is bent, it will normally show up on the flatness test. But even if it remains flat, you can easily see a seperated clip.

And lastly, you MUST make certain that the two forks (or open end) is trailing the direction of travel. (Chain going left, forks pointing right)

You will NEVER hear of anyone losing a chain that has a properly installed clip master.
Again, OEM's recommend rivet links for the Dummy Factor. (shrug)

 

[CB900F2]

Has any tested or know if "Castrol Chainlube" is a dry lube?? (Not their chain wax).. I looked over their MSDS and from what I can understand it look like it is...

Any feedback?

Thanks Guys....

 

[rice_smuggler]

Anybody know what the differences between the black label Honda Pro Chain Lube and the red label are?

 

[fuel tanker man]

 

[Vstrom]

Jaybird- you are simply wrong on several points. Go read some of the chain manufacturers sites explaining WHY removeable type links are undesireable. It is fully understood by engineering experts that a rivited link is the strongest and the only CORRECT way to join chain used in high power bikes. Sure lots of people have run removeable links without a problem but it is a gamble. You can blindfold yourself and run across the freeway and maybe make it- doesn't mean it is a good idea

Here is one link to get you started-
http://www.reginachain.it/eng/use_and_maintenance/how_to02.shtml#02

Another is-
http://www.ekchain.com/install.htm

I don't think you will find ANY chain manufacturer recommending removeable links on higher powered bikes.

 

[rokky]

Chain parting at high speed and/or high rpms. Take your foot off. Give me the rivets please.

 

[1sttruck]

I've lost a chain at speed due to the master link not holding, longer into the life of the chain. I managed to find it next to highway, and used my spare master link to get going again. As I recall it was the only time that it happened in over 20 years of riding.

 

[C.O. Jones]

I agree that a rivetted chain is safer than a chain with a removable link, because the clip that holds the side plate is the weak link in the chain(no pun intended).

Having said that, I have ridden and raced on a chain with a removable link but I always double safety wire the plate and clip. Never had a problem.

 

[Master ACiD]

i read somewhere that a pro supercross guy, i think it was jeremy mcgrath but im not positive on that, dips his new chain in hot liquid bacon grease, pulls it out and wipes it off and uses it just like that.

every time i fry some bacon i think of doing this just for the inquisitive part of my mind.

in reality what i do is somewhat similar to what another poster has suggested. i have a electric motor and reduction drive mounted on the side of my workshop table. it turns a motorcycle front sprocket at about 100 rpm's. i put my dirty chain on the sprocket and submerge the bottom 3 or so inches of the chain in engine degreaser. i let the reduction drive spin for a couple hours and it cleans the chain inside and out. after this i clean the engine degreaser off with wd40, while the chain is still spinning mind you. i wait untill the chain is relatively dry and then spray it from the inside with some spray on chain lube. i normally use this stuff from a company called "holeshot" that sprays on as a good flowing liquid, with the thickness of roughly an atf. it quickly dries to a very hard grease in about 15 minutes.
is this what you guys call dry film? i never really thought too much about it, but i think that for people without o-ring chains , when you clean the chain you need to clean the inside of the chain, where the bushings and pins make contact. cleaning the outside of a chain with something like a tooth brush does no good. dirt on the outside of a chain does not hurt it anything. its the drt in the pins and bushings that are eating away metal and making the chain longer.

after i am done cleaning my chain on the reduction box, the engine degreaser usually has a nice little layer of black grit on the bottom.

here is something to think about. after i clean the chain, it lengthens about half a link or so. after i re lube it, it regains back this half a link. i think the half a link of slack is probably dirt and chain lube takeing up space in the rollers and bushings.


just to add some old timer perspective on this, i asked my dad what he thought about chains and such. he has been riding bikes non stop sence the 60's. he has done a number of cross country trips on bikes, like running from south florida to alaska and back solo. he said that first of all he will never own another bike that uses chain drive. my dad hates chains. he now has a bmw r1100r shaft drive bike. but when he did the cross country thing, he had a chain drive bike back then, a honda no less. my dad seems to believe that you should replace the chain and sprocket more often than nessassary. he awalys used wheel bearing grease applied with a stiff paint brush. sounds funny but i guess it works. he said that he awalys used to use cheap industrial type chain for his bikes and change the chain out more frequently, and he never thought anything good of expensive aftermarket chains, they wear out as quick as cheap industrial chain according to him. he said its better to use a new good chain than to risk having an old chain break because if it breaks you can punch a hole right through the transmission, which he has done a couple of times. not fun to do when you are on the gravel road that links ameirca to alaska in the early days.

take that for what its worth.

[ January 11, 2006, 06:46 PM: Message edited by: Master ACiD ]

 

[sunruh]

i promise you, Mac Daddy hasn't touched a chain in over a decade.
that's like saying John Force or Jeff Gordon works on his own engine.

 

[rice_smuggler]

...and now, back to our regularly scheduled program...I decided to go with Ultra Film Chain Lube. I just swapped out my stock chain and sprockets on my R6 for a DID gold 530vm x-ring chain and AFAM steel sprockets. In the past I was using the Bel-Ray Super Clean Lube, it worked alright I guess but I wasn't very fond of the white residue it left. This time around I want to keep the chain looking clean and dry because of the gold chain, therefore my choice. Put my order in but haven't received it yet, plus it's winter here anyways. I'll post up some updates as the season wears on.

 

[Jaybird]

Vstrom, why don't you point out the several points that I'm simply wrong on?

"to get me started..." Please....
I know every word of every chain mfg site on the net. I "got started" on chain maintenance long before Al Gore invented the internet.

Here is the whole enchilada as far as what I'm trying to convey on master links...
The MFG's produce and recommend rivet type mater links for the DUMMY FACTOR.

Yes, I agree that they have a level of safety that, when mounted up properly, is a bit less likely to come apart than a clip type master is.
The thing is...IF MOUNTED PROPERLY, a clip type master is just as safe as any other.

The problem is that once a fella takes off a clip..then all bets are off. It is SO common for a rider to screw a clip fork up just by taking it off. Even the slightest bit out of flat (warped) and the clip fork has alot less integrity than it did when it was new.

Lets do a little bit of study on why mfg's do the things they do...ok, all together now...
L I A B I L I T Y

They do not recommend rivet masters because there is an inherent danger in properly using clip type masters...they do it because of their liability. They realize that the dummy factor takes president in many instances and they are giving you recommendations that, while yes they do make sense in a way, they are providing this recommendation more for liability reasons than anything.

There isn't a problem with using rivet type master...I'm simply pointing out why they are recommended.
A clip type master is very safe and reliable...UNLESS someone takes it apart and springs the clip. It will NEVER fit back properly and has the potential to come apart, as it no longer fits correctly into the seating grooves.
The dummy will not check for flatness, and will remount the clip. The dummy will also mount the clip backwards...and the mfg knows this.

Also realize this...if a dummy has a rivet type master, he may not peen the pins properly...that is also a recipe for disaster.

The proper use of ANY sort of master link is safe. The improper use of ANY master link can spell disaster.


BTW...I LOVE these bacon grease stories. LOL...

I also love hearing about folks who hate chains, yet they lubricate them with grease. It's no wonder they hate chains, because lubricating them with a grease is like lubricating them with mud...neither does ANY good whatsoever in the lubrication of a roller chain.
The only lubricant that the chain pins and bushings see from an application of grease, is MONTHS down the road when the oil finally seeps out of suspension from the soap base.

They shouldn't feel too bad being ignorant on chain maint though...Ford Motors maintenance personnel used to lubricate their conveyor drive chains with grease and a paint brush.
They simply accepted that these chains would wear out in short order.
Once they found out the proper way to lubricate a roller chain, they found that these same animals were lasting +10 times longer than previously.

 

[Blake Sobiloff]

Well, I gave the MX-1000 chain lube a shot. I really like the idea of a dry film lube with moly. So, I ordered some and followed the application instructions: I cleaned my chain with kerosene, then applied at all four points indicated.

However, it has been raining quite a bit here in San Jose and it looks like this lube does not do well in those conditions. After my first ride in the rain my chain became thoroughly covered with surface rust. This included the areas I specifically lubed, as well as the side plates. It was kind of a "duh" moment for me, as I shouldn't have expected bare chain to resist rust, but I was disappointed to see the MX-1000 wash out so quickly (or provide so little rust resistance, whichever the case may be), even in the places it was specifically applied.

It sounds like sunruh's having a good experience with MX-1000 in dry conditions. This is good news! It just seems that MX-1000 doesn't work well in wet conditions.

I've since gone back to my tried and true TriFlow. It prevents my chain from rusting for at least a week, which works well with my maintenance schedule. (I don't want to futz with chain maintenance more than once a week, which is about 250 miles of commuting.)

After I run out of this can of TriFlow I may try the new Dupont multi-purpose lube and see how it fares. The only reason I'm looking to change from TriFlow is that it does have a small bit of fling, especially if I apply it and then immediately ride. It does better if it can sit overnight, but even then I still get some black speckles on my rear rim and swingarm. Not a big deal, but if there's something out there that can prevent that...

 

[rokky]

Yes Blake. I'm north of you and I know all about wet riding. I was doing a lot of commuting on my bikes the last couple of years.

Nothing really works well in wet conditions. You need to spray the chain down with something daily if you don't want rust.

I know its a pain but let me know if you find a miracle cure.

 

[Jaybird]

Dry-film was not desinged to be a super rust preventative per se. It is basically massive amounts of barrier lubricant being carried into place by a solvent.

Yes, in extreme water conditions you may notice a bit of oxidation on bare carbon steel parts, but you can bet that moly is still in place at the friction points.
(try to wash the moly off of your sprocket teeth with a hose)

Many overcome this oxidation issue of the plates by simply ordering coated plates.
Others choose stainless plates.

Chain wax and similar thick goos cause problems with dirt riders. Grit and goo make for grinding pastes. However, if you are riding on the street only, you could lube with a dry film, and then protect the outside of the chain with a wax or similar goo.

 

[Vstrom]

Jaybird-

Ok you asked-"Vstrom, why don't you point out the several points that I'm simply wrong on?"

I posted- "Most chains on bikes with much power are RIVITED nowadays, removeable masterlinks are a thing of the past, except on some dirt bikes and weaker street bikes."

You said "Not true."

So tell me how my statement is not true. Name me the most of the street bikes larger than, say, 600cc that come with non-rivited chains.

Next you posted- "First off, "bikes" do not have links of any sort, it's the chain that has the links."

Don't know what the heck you are getting at here but bikes do have "links" other than in the chain, look under modern bikes and tell me what the part is connecting the rear suspension to the shocks, in modern parlance that is called a link by most riders. Again I don't really know what the siginificance of your statement was, seemed to come out of the blue???

You also posted-"You will NEVER hear of anyone losing a chain that has a properly installed clip master."

Really? People lose chains with BOTH rivited and clip type master links. Never say never.


Ok, as requested I've provided you SEVERAL points you are simply wrong on....case closed.


As for the rest of this discussion it is apparent you are some mechanical genius and know much more than the highly experienced engineers at virtually every major chain manufacturer in the world. I'm not, I only know what I read.
Let us know when they all want to hire you as a consultant to tell them how wrong they all are about how rivited chains are stronger and that their expensive analysis is flawed.

Now back to the topic of chain lubrication- a discussion that will NEVER (oops I said never) be settled, much like what is the best oil, what is the best beer, what is the best bike, etc etc...


PS- in the south Jaybird is used as a derogatory term for someone of less than average intelligence, might want to consider a different handle

 

[Jaybird]

Vstrom,
If you want to discuss this in a mature fashion, we can do that.
Continue to come off as condesending, with little immature jabs at me, including one about my screen name...and you can forget about getting anything more from me.
This place has lots more integrity that what you are showing. I think it a bad idea to foul it up with smart-mouthed comments.

Clip type masters are not a thing of the past.

I explained to you why mfg's are so high on rivet masters.

There are two basic configurations for chain connecting links.
Slip-fit, and press-fit.
A slip fit joint has holes in the connecting sideplate that are slightly oversized from the pin. This very minute bit of size difference can in fact give the connecting link a bit less integrity than a press-fit joint.

A press-fit (or intereference) joint has connecting plate holes that are slightly smaller than the diameter of the pins. As a result, the connecting sideplate must be pressed on.
Most all rivet link masters, as well as many clip maters, will incorporate an interference joint.

The rivet or clip that holds the joint together is NOT what gives the master link it's integrity, but rather the fit of the plate itself.
The rivet link smashes or "peens" the ends of the pins to keep the connecting sideplate in postition. The fork type clip master does the very same job. Neither the rivet nor the clip provides the link ANY more integrity.

The problem, as I've stated before, is that many folks will screw up a clip type master. It's easy to put it on backwards, or replace one that has been bent. But, the rivet is harder to screw up. And it is for that reason alone that rivet masters are recommended over the clips.
They DO NOT provide any more integrity to the link itself.

Most all chain mfg's that DO NOT provide their own chain lube, will recomnmend using a 90wt gear oil on the chain for lubrication.
That is a poor choice for MANY reasons.
But, the chain mfg recommended it...wouldn't it be logical that they recommend the very best lubricant available?
I would have no trouble at all debating the lubrication issue with ANY engineer from ANY chain mfg.
AND...you'll find out, if you do any real investigating past what a website offers you, that these same chain mfg engineers will back me up on what I'm telling you about master links.

But then...I HAVE talked with these engineers, and you, Sir are making assumptions.

 

[Vstrom]

JayBird sez-"Vstrom,
If you want to discuss this in a mature fashion, we can do that.
Continue to come off as condesending, with little immature jabs at me, including one about my screen name...and you can forget about getting anything more from me."

Thank you, I want nothing else from you!

You still haven't honored my request to show us bikes that come with non-rivited chains, that's because you can't!


If you really took the time to study the rivited master issue you will discover it has little to do with keeping the side plate in place. It has more to do with the strength of the complete assembly. The very tight press fit prevents microscopic movement of the parts which results in eventual stress failure under high loads.

Everything I've stated about rivited master links is published by various chain manufacturers, I'm not making it up.

BTW there were no little immature jabs at you, even the JayBird comment was ended with a smiley face wink, so get over it. If you want to get emotional that is understandable since you haven't and CANNOT back up your "facts".

We will have to agree to disagree. Me-I'll stick with what EVERY chain manufacturer publishes recommending rivited master links in high power applications. If you can find even ONE chain manufacturer who will back you up in writing I'll listen- fair enough?

 

[Mackelroy]

However, it has been raining quite a bit here in San Jose and it looks like this lube does not do well in those conditions. After my first ride in the rain my chain became thoroughly covered with surface rust.)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Blake, I think yous reinventing the wheel. Know you know >G
Keep your bike an indoor enviornment and should work well >G<

 

[Jaybird]

What is a roller chain connecting link used for and what is its impact on the chain's load capacity?

ANSWER: Connecting links are used to join the two ends of the chain together and are provided in two different configurations, depending on the application.

Slip-fit, the most common and most popular, are provided for general chain applications and allow the easy slip fit assembly of the cover plate over the pin ends. This slip fit construction does not have the same integrity found in the assembled chain and can reduce the chain's working load capacity by as much as 30%.

Press-fit connecting links are provided when the integrity of the connecting link needs to be equal to that of the base chain. This design utilizes pitch holes in the cover plate that are smaller than the chain pins, requiring the user to press the cover plate onto the pins before installing the spring clip or cotter. While more difficult to install this type of connection provides the greatest load carrying capability.


Riveted chain is constructed using pins that extend through the plate on each side a small amount and are then "riveted", or sidemashed, on their ends to add some additional strength to the hold between the pin and plate. Note; the riveting, sidemashing, is NOT what holds the pin and plate together, the interference fit between the plate hole size and the pin diameter hold the two together.

http://www.diamondchain.com/products/pro_motorcyclechain.php

(do you ride motorcycles, Mackelroy?)