What are we using for chain lube?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Chain wax is not a "goo", it's quite the opposite.

Stock chain-driven motorcycles do not come with EITHER a clip-type or a rivet-type master link. They are ENDLESS chains, all links made the same way by the chain manufacturer, and are installed as the bike is being built. The only way to get a endless chain on or off of most motorcycles is by removing the swingarm.

Lately I have been using PJ1 Blue Label, which goes on clear. I have no problem with fling-off or with dirt retention, and the lube holds up well in the rain as well as in dry riding conditions. For wet weather, on a longer trip, I will use Maxima chain wax as it holds up better on high-mileage days in the wet. It does not survive for long in dry riding conditions, though; 200 miles at the outside.
 
Adam,
The chain is assembled in the factory exactly the same way it is assembled in your garage.

The chain is mfg in long runs, not in single, endless chains. The proper number of links for a particular model bike is cut from that long run, and installed using either a clip type or rivet type master link, depending on the bike and type of chain.

What you have stated is rediculous.
 
Jaybird, Adam is using common terminology ("endless chain") in the motorcycling world for a factory chain that doesn't have a clip or a visually identifiable master link. No need to be so pedantic.
smile.gif
 
Some of my British motorcycling friends are raving about a new "ceramic" chain lube called "TecFlow". You can find a description of it at http://www.motouk.net/acatalog/TecFlow.html. It appears to work well in their wet winters and protects the chains well from the corrosive salts they spray their roads with. (These are street-only riders, FWIW.)

I've never heard of ceramic lubricants before. Good stuff or bunk? Jaybird?
 
I followed him fairly well, I think.
smile.gif

The endless chain is only made endless by use of a master link.
Sorry if I came of sounding harsh. (shrug)

My main point is that the bike mfg probably cuts the chain, supplied by the chain mfg, to the length needed for each bike. One may need 104 links, another model may need 112 links.
And they may well be put together prior to being put on the bike. But no matter when the chain is assembled, it has to be fastened end-to-end by a master link...of some sort.
The factory may well have some tooling set up to press on the attachments, inject grease (if need be), and stake the pins all in one shot. Where as you have to do these items individually, and with hand tools.

Other bikes will have chains with a clip type master link. Those are assembled by hand, in the factory or in the garage.

The guy installing the chain on the bike in the factory (which he probably isn't doing anyway..probably the dealer) may well think that the chain came from the chain mfg already to go as he needed it, but the chain was put together somwhere upstream in the assembly process by the bike mfg.

The guy who puts the bikes together at the dealer may also think the chain was done at the chain mfg like that, but it was not.

Many who have endless chains, (which btw is actually a chain full of identical rivet type master links), will opt to use a chain breaker instead of taking the rear wheel and swingarm assembly off to get the chain removed for cleaning.

Using the chain breaker allows you to inspect the internal condition of the links friction points.

On a sealed ring chain, this also will give you a chance to inspect how the lubricant between the sealing rings look. If it looks as if the grease is depleated, you can bet the rest of the links look the same.

If you use a lube that doesn't make cleaning hard, and keep an eye on your chain by adjusting and measuring occasionally, you shouldn't have to take the chain off until replacement time.

Of course having the proper replacement master link, and the proper tools for the job is very important.
 
I think that the world of ceramics and high molecular weight plastics has seen some ground breaking things in the past few years.

With lubes like the TecFlow, it appears that their main addtives is a ceramic. It states "self-lubricating" ceramic, but I feel that is a misnomer that is often stated.
I don't think that ceramics have anything in them that will create a lubricant of any sort to keep themsleves lubricated, but rather the molecular structure of the ceramic itself dictates a very low coefficient of friction.

The ceramic would serve the same purpose as a boundery lube, but work like a film. But, I don't think that a ceramic can protect at the barrier level once the load is enough to rupture the film. It must have addtional additives to take up the slack there.
If it does, and is a dry-film, as they state, it probably would be a good lube to try.
Especially in your case, Blake, with the corrosion issue. Sounds like they have that covered.
 
Umm so what's the consensus on chain lube?

90WT gear oil?
Castrol Chain Wax?
Maxima Chain lube?
Bel Ray?
Motul?
or Manufacturer products, i.e Honda, Kawasaki, etc?
 
quote:
Originally posted by Jaybird:
Adam,
The chain is assembled in the factory exactly the same way it is assembled in your garage.

The chain is mfg in long runs, not in single, endless chains. The proper number of links for a particular model bike is cut from that long run, and installed using either a clip type or rivet type master link, depending on the bike and type of chain.

What you have stated is rediculous.
Click to expand...
Why would a chain manufacturer use anything any different to join the chain ends together than what it uses to make individual links in the first place?

Chain manufacturers make endless chains where all links are identical, there is not one link that is different to connect the ends of the chain, whether you're talking a hand-assembled rivet-type master link or a clip-type. The chain ends are joined the same way the rest of the chain is constructed -- by machine with a tighter interference fit on the end plate-to-pin junction and a much harder pin end, which is quad-staked by machine, rather than a softer material peened over with a hammer and drift.

Far from ridiculous, it is fact.
 
quote:
Originally posted by Jaybird:
I followed him fairly well, I think.
smile.gif

The endless chain is only made endless by use of a master link.
Sorry if I came of sounding harsh. (shrug)

My main point is that the bike mfg probably cuts the chain, supplied by the chain mfg, to the length needed for each bike. One may need 104 links, another model may need 112 links.
And they may well be put together prior to being put on the bike. But no matter when the chain is assembled, it has to be fastened end-to-end by a master link...of some sort.
Click to expand...
No, endless chains are NOT joined with a master link. All the links are exactly identical. I challenge you to examine an OE endless chain and find the master link (hint: it isn't there to be found).

Motorcycle manufacturers order endless chains from chain manufacturers, who ship them already assembled. You will never find an endless chain being installed on a bike on the assembly line after the swingarm is mounted (as that would be impossible unless the chain ends were joined with a master link after installation).

And endless chains are definitely not made out of nothing but master links... If that were the case, then ALL chains would be made of nothing but master links, and all chains would be considerably less durable. Machine-assembled quad-staked tight interference-fit chain link != master link. A master link is by definition different from the other links in the chain.
 
Adam,
...have you ever been in a motorcycle manufacturing facility and seen the procedure for chain installation? I think you are making some assumptions, rather than providing first hand knowledge.
I think you'll find on the moto assembly line that the chain is draped on after rear wheel assembly, and the chain is assembled/staked with a pneumatic hand assembly tool, hung from a balancer.
And the guy who mans that operation will have a supply of "rivet master links" close at hand.

When a bike has an "endless" chain on it, it did not come assembled from the chain manufacturer to that length. It may well of had the chain shipped at the correct length, or number of reels, but it would not be assembled end-to-end by the chain mfg. The bike mfg or the previous owner did the deed.

It was more correct for me to say that each link is identical indluding the pin plate assembly that gets refered to as the "rivet master link", rather than saying the whole chain was masters...but regardless they are identical parts.

And that chain that has no visible "master link" WAS in FACT assembled together at one time by someone...and the link that they used is identical to the pin links in the rest of the chain. They are in fact the identical same part.
They are technically refered to as a pin link(male) and the other half of the reel is the bushing or roller link (female).

Each pin link is assembled to it's corrosponding bushing links in the same way each time. Be it by a machine or by hand.
There are quality hand staking tools that will do the job so you couldn't tell if it were done by hand or machine.

There are clip type master links that are used on hundreds of thousands of bikes each year. Those types of masters (or connecting links)do differ from the other links of the chain, as they are machined so that the assembly is held together with a spring steel clip or a screw type fastener.
Other connectors use cotters and other configurations for closure, but that gets outside of the moto world.

burnout.gif
 
quote:
There are quality hand staking tools that will do the job so you couldn't tell if it were done by hand or machine.
Click to expand...
Brands? Sources? I'm very interested in near-term purchase of such a tool, as I expect I'll need to replace my chain soon. Thanks!
 
quote:
Originally posted by Blake Sobiloff:

quote:
There are quality hand staking tools that will do the job so you couldn't tell if it were done by hand or machine.
Click to expand...
Brands? Sources? I'm very interested in near-term purchase of such a tool, as I expect I'll need to replace my chain soon. Thanks!
Click to expand...
The chain companies (i.e. DID, FTM/RK, et,) sell them in addition to aftermarket companies such as Motion Pro, etc.
 
quote:
Originally posted by Jaybird:
You'll find the Motion Pro tools far easier to come by than the chain mfg's tools.

This link shows the tool I would recommend if you must use a rivet master. It has the breaker, plate press, and pin stake all in one kit.

http://www.motionpro.com/parts/tools/product/jumbo_chain_tool/

An addition to the kit is the quad stake attachment, for that factory staking look.
http://www.motionpro.com/parts/tools/product/quad_stake_rivet_tool_kit/
Click to expand...
I've been using the Motion Pro tool for dozens of chains each year on various bikes. This same tool is sold under different names, but be careful because there are tools out there that look very similar that are of less quality.

Here's the link to DID's chain tool, which can be purchased from any DID dealer or directly from DID.
http://www.didchain.com/install.htm

And from EK Chain...(looks like the Motion Pro Tool)
http://www.ekchain.com/access.htm

And from Regina chain...
http://www.reginachain.it/eng/use_and_maintenance/how_to01.shtml

And from RK / FTM...
http://www.ftmbiz.com/mx_rk_chain.html

Moose Racing offers them too..
http://www.mooseracing.com/

And there's plenty more if you look around.
 
The Jumbo Chain Tool from Motion Pro is pretty much in it's own court. I think the tools that are similar to Motion Pro tools are the lesser tools.
The jumbo is a heavy duty piece that can be bolted down to a work bench or a vise.
These items are NOT cheap.

Also, be aware that if you purchase one of brands of chain breakers, that they all use the "push the whole pin all the way thorugh both plates" method. A breaker that uses this method see's ALOT of force and as a result can easily be broken or damaged simply from using it.
It's one of the reasons that these types of breakers come with instructions to grind the head of the pins off first, to help relieve some of this excessive force.

A conventional type chain breaker only seperates one sideplate from one side of the pins. This method allows for much less force to get the chain broken. These coventional types of breakers are also very inexpensive. ~($15-25 USD)
And can be had from any NAPA, farm supply, or parts house.
However, conventional breakers will not stake the pins of a rivet master link. You need a staking tool for that...or a good ballpeen.

Clip type master links make much more sense to use, IMO.
 
quote:
Originally posted by Jaybird:
...have you ever been in a motorcycle manufacturing facility and seen the procedure for chain installation?
Click to expand...
Yes I have, the Honda plant in Marysville, OH. I've also worked for Aprilia USA, and know a number of people in senior tech positions at Honda, Kawasaki, and Suzuki.

What is the source of your claim regarding assembling chains at the motorcycle manufacturer? And if the link is the same as every other link on the chain, how can it be the MASTER link?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

MRC01
Bike Chain Maintenance
Replies
13
Views
2K
MRC01
S
  • Locked
Terrible luck with motorcycle chain longevity.
2 3
Replies
57
Views
10K
Chris142
P
4L80E pressure log woes
Replies
11
Views
3K
clinebarger
OVERKILL
HOBS base oils and implicit/inherent FM
Replies
7
Views
4K
bruce381
B
  • Locked
my take on chain lube
2
Replies
32
Views
15K
prs
Back
Top