What are the real dangers of non-API rated oil?

[ConfederateTyrant]

Using a non-API rated oil would be a danger because it's not even tested for the API rating or standards, or so that is what is implied by "non-API rated." Using a non-API approved oil just means that you bought from a company that refuses to pay ridiculous fees for useless approval seals.

Independently testing to ensure it's up to the API standards is just as good, but the company benefits there by having more money to put into research and development.

 

[Built_Well]

Originally Posted By: JohnBrowning
In fact the best products that M1 makes do not meet SM and I am not sure but I think the M1 0W40 is not an API approved oil but I could wrong on that one.


Even though Mobil 1 0w40 has 1,000 ppm of phosphorous, it is still approved as an API SM oil.

It's *not* API (the American Petroleum Institute) that limits the phosphorous level from ZDDP to 800 ppm (parts per million) in oil.

You may find this hard to believe, but there are oils that
have 1000 ppm and even 1200 ppm of phosphorous from ZDDP
that *are* certified by the API at the SM level: API SM certified.

For examples, Mobil 1 0w-40 has 1000 ppm of phosphorous and
it enjoys API SM certification. So does Mobil 1 5w-50.
Mobil 1 15w-50 even has 1200 ppm , and still it is API SM certified.

It's not API that restricts phosphorous. It's ILSAC in
their GF-4 specification.

If someone needs proof that the API does not restrict
phosphorous to 800 ppm, look at this .pdf document from
Mobil 1's web site that shows the ppm level of phosphorous
from ZDDP in their oils and also shows the certifications
each oil enjoys.

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Files/Mobil_1_Product_Guide.pdf

I'll also quote the Mobil 1 site:

"The active ingredient that you are talking about is
phosphorus which is added thru a component called ZDDP.
For products that meet the new ILSAC GF-4 specification
the phosphorus levels for the oil must be less than
800 ppm phosphorus. The ILSAC level for phosphorus has
been reduced to protect the catalytic converter and other
emission protection equipment. The engine manufacturers
are confident that this level of phosphorus will protect
both new and older engines. However, there are Mobil 1
products which have a higher level of phosphorus (phos)
and can be used in engines in racing or high performance
applications; see the attached .PDF table at

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Files/Mobil_1_Product_Guide.pdf

And here's the link to the above Mobil 1 quotation:

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Car_Care/AskMobil/Zinc_Motor_Oils.aspx

By the way, Glennc and JohnBrowning, you both make lots of good points

 

[jpr]

Originally Posted By: Canawler
What are the real dangers of non-API rated oil?
There's no way to accurately answer that question without knowing WHY a particular oil is not API rated. Is it just saving money on licensing fees or are there properties of the oil that would cause not to be able to pass the API standards?

If you believe the former, how do you know?

If the latter is the case, how much do you know about which specific API tests are problematic? Is it enough infomation to be confident that you fully understand the significance of these deviations, either beneficial or harmful?

API, ACEA, and manufacturer's approvals constitute nothing more or less than information about an oils properties and performance. Their presence or absence does not change the physical properties of the oil and does not make an oil good or bad. But the in the absence of information, one is left with uncertainty and risk. How much or how little additional information you need to offset that uncertainty to an acceptable level of risk is up to you.

 

[tenderloin]

Bill My wife's 07 Beetle is a PZEV The 5W-40 oil that goes in it at the dealer and I assume from the factory is SL not SM. Obviously VW who concerns themselves with oil to the point of their 505 etc numbers is not concerned with a SL oil messing up the PZEV emissions system.
I could be wrong but I believe many 0w-40's and 5W-40's are ILSAC GF–3.

 

[JustinH]

Originally Posted By: tenderloin
Bill My wife's 07 Beetle is a PZEV The 5W-40 oil that goes in it at the dealer and I assume from the factory is SL not SM. Obviously VW who concerns themselves with oil to the point of their 505 etc numbers is not concerned with a SL oil messing up the PZEV emissions system.
I could be wrong but I believe many 0w-40's and 5W-40's are ILSAC GF–3.


I believe the thread is talking about non API rated oils.

When you put SM in a motor spec'ed for SL, you are still using an API grade oil that will meet the requirements of the old spec for use in your engine.

They are talking about using that no name brand oil sold at gas stations, it usually says non detergent oil on the front of it.

 

[tenderloin]

JustinH While you could be correct, I thought they were referring to boutique oils like Redline, Torco etc. that have a higher dose of additives that the new oil specs clamped down on.

Bill was referring to these additives messing up pollution controls including PZEV vehicles. That is why I mentioned that VW's PZEV use 5W-40 SL ILSAC GF–3 oil, not the newer SM, GF-4.

 

[chet2]

i like api oils because how many billions of miles have cars used them with no problems? plus that car comapnies reccomend them