Weed and grass killer

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Glysophate is not organic. Say you have a well established society of fungi the web of defense in the soil protecting plant growth.

When glysophate was added the social network it protected itself by attacking a foreign substant that was not wanted in the soil. Fungi are cleansers that can tear things in the soil....like your kidney filtering the bad stuff.

Monsanto marketed glysophate as a low toxic herbicide, an organic herbicide.
 
FWIW I live in corn country and really don't see too much of the Roundup Ready soybeans used, but there are a few that use it. You can tell because of all the weeds in the beans before they spray. Don't think there is a corn version of it. Most weed killers anymore are pre-emergance types.
 
Years ago, products like Roundup were marketed as both "earth" friendly and "user" friendly. I can easily see that at that time given the "do all kill all" in those days was a product called "Paraquat." You want to talk deadly, google "Paraquat."

What we've seen after decades of Roundup use are weeds and unwanted plants becoming more and more resistant to products like Roundup. While it's not discussed often, we are in the process of creating "super weeds" that can only be killed through massive amounts of herbicide. It's a "Catch 22" as the more herbicide used, the more resistant the weeds become over time. Eventually, products like "Roundup" will be useless to the farmer and he or she will have to return to old fashioned methods of weed control such as the plow, disc harrow and hand tillage, (think of a crew of people with hoes "walking beans" or "chopping cotton" like they did years ago).

While such methods are somewhat "earth friendly," (although plowing and discing do create "plow pan" also known as "hard pan" which greatly reduces the productivity of the soil and must be broken up with huge "chisel plows,") such methods increase costs of production dramatically. One reason food is so cheap here in the United States is because less trips to the field with either workers or equipment reduces costs on the buyers end.

What has happened over the years is that slowly but consistently, we've become more and more dependent on products like herbicides, pesticides and non-organic fertilizers to increase production on a given amount of land. The glaring fact that no one wants to discuss is starvation, which would happen if all these products were removed from use.

To put it plainly, we're stuck with what we have.
 
How do routine agricultural practices correlate to occasional residential use? They are going to rinse more chemicals out of their tank during cleanup than I'm going to use in a year.
 
Originally Posted By: tom slick
How do routine agricultural practices correlate to occasional residential use? They are going to rinse more chemicals out of their tank during cleanup than I'm going to use in a year.


Of course residential use can't be compared. What I'm saying is pesticides/herbicide needs to be broken down.

You need to understand how glyphosate breaks down. If I was to use glyphosate I'd rather have the aquatic(100% glyphosate) and add my own surfactant. That way I know what's being applied. Personally I don't apply any type of synthetic herbicide or pesticide in my yard. Organic keeps weeds and insect in check.

Monsanto Roundup surfactant? ... well it's your choice what brand of glyphosate you want to use.
 
Originally Posted By: jcwit
Originally Posted By: dave1251


If it kills honeybee's. Good.


You wish to starve?


No I wish an invasive species not to be in North America. Plants thrived before the arrival of honeybee's. Plants will be fine after they leave.
 
Originally Posted By: tom slick
How do routine agricultural practices correlate to occasional residential use? They are going to rinse more chemicals out of their tank during cleanup than I'm going to use in a year.

+1. I agree. Everything doesn't scale, particularly linearly.

Yet another BITOG thread gone wildly off-topic! What started as a guy looking to rid a small area in his own yard of weeds has rapidly "progressed" from molehill to mountain, in non-linear fashion I might add!

A quart bottle of generic glyphosphate concentrate lasts me nearly eight years!!! 1 oz dilluted with 128oz. (1 gallon) of water. But this 1 oz of product isn't 100% glyphosphate. It's only 41%. The remaining 59% is 'inert ingredients' (water). 41% of 1 oz. = 0.41 oz. 0.41/128 = 0.0032 (thirty-two ten-thousandths) or a final concentration level of the 'ert-ingredient' of 0.32%.

So these progressive controllers want to tear their clothes, dump (organic) ashes on their heads and drive their foreign SUV's on the sidewalk over thirty-two ten-thousandths? All because a guy wants to rid his kids play area of some weeds? WTH? Lions, tigers and bears...oh my!

And most of what's sold in the box stores is about half that concentration: Sixteen ten-thousandths.

Further, it isn't mixed in a bucket and poured on the ground, saturating the soil. It's put into a sprayer and misted on a weed. Thousands upon thousands of teeny-weeny droplets. In my area, the solar heat index is currently 120°F. That which hits the ground, instantly evaporates. The air absorbs that which doesn't hit the ground. Leaving only a tensy-tinsy bit which actually sticks to the weed itself. So how many ten-thousandths are we down to?

Lastly, don't ignore UV's powerfull effect to break molecular bonds. After all, what's left is sitting on top of the soil, after the water has flash-evaporated upon contact (meaning there is no water to carry it DEEP into the soil. After all we're not watering with weed killer), and the Sun will proceed to bombard it with enough UV for the next 8 hours to give your unprotected skin a major second-degree burn. For the sake of brevity, I won't go into the effects of oxygen and ozone but they're also working on disassembling the molecule as well.

Why even pay for the name-brand stuff when Eraser is the same thing...at half the cost? Unfortunately we find outselves in an age when progressives want to politicize EVERYTHING...including residential lawn and garden care and regress-us...resulting in a circular argument....that just goes in circles...frustrating those of us who just want to cross this off of our weekend 'to-do-list' and move on to cold beer, baseball and BBQ.

Where do these busy bodies find the time? Obviously they don't spend it thinking...

/rant
 
Mamala Bay, I appreciate your informed posts and I ask pointed questions to further my own knowledge.
Many times this type of topic goes: Roundup = Monsanto, Monsanto = Evil, Therefore Roundup = Evil, end of knowledge on the subject. I can tell you have studied this stuff further.

I use generic 41% Glyphosate and add non-ionic surfactant when I need to kill grass. Most of the time I use 2,4-d alone or 2,4-d, Mecoprop-p, and Dicamba broadleaf weed killer.
 
Originally Posted By: tom slick
How do routine agricultural practices correlate to occasional residential use? They are going to rinse more chemicals out of their tank during cleanup than I'm going to use in a year.


For two reasons. One, the application of herbicides, pesticides, etc., are highly regulated in farming, (try filling up your sprayer tank from a pond or creek like we did years ago and see how quickly you get a visit from the authorities). Disposal is also highly regulated. It's not simply a matter of "rinsing out your tank." Compare this to the ease of application and disposal for the average homeowner, who often uses these products with little or no supervision and very little if any education.

Secondly, the average homeowner uses more of these products per square foot than does the average farmer. Once again, we're talking dollars. A farmer, like any business person, wants to spend as little as possible to make as much as possible. Therefore, the smallest amount of herbicides and pesticides are used for a given area. Most home owners on the other hand are trying to make their yard/flower garden "look pretty." So it's not a question of cost as much as a question of result, i.e. "whatever it takes." Multiply this in a given neighborhood and you'll see how it is increased far beyond the average farm.
 
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: jcwit
Originally Posted By: dave1251


If it kills honeybee's. Good.


You wish to starve?


No I wish an invasive species not to be in North America. Plants thrived before the arrival of honeybee's. Plants will be fine after they leave.


Sure about that are you?

Whether or no, the plants today need insects to pollinate them, I have no idea about the plants from the beginning of time.
 
Originally Posted By: jcwit
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: jcwit
Originally Posted By: dave1251


If it kills honeybee's. Good.


You wish to starve?


No I wish an invasive species not to be in North America. Plants thrived before the arrival of honeybee's. Plants will be fine after they leave.


Sure about that are you?

Whether or no, the plants today need insects to pollinate them, I have no idea about the plants from the beginning of time.


Unlike you I am sure. Honeybee's did not arrive in North America until the 1600's from European settlers. There many native insects and birds that have done a fine job pollinating plants before the honeybee.
 
The problem is most of the food we eat also arrived with / after the Europeans. Citrus, Nuts, etc are all dependent on bees. Unless you only eat wild caught fish, acorns, snakes, and bison our food system depends on bees.
 
Originally Posted By: dave1251





Unlike you I am sure. Honeybee's did not arrive in North America until the 1600's from European settlers. There many native insects and birds that have done a fine job pollinating plants before the honeybee.


While it does seem that you are correct about "honey bees", now the question arises whether the "native species" is able to pollinate in the quantity we now need. At present we now need to transport bee hives all over to produce the crops we need.

Then too if getting rid of the "invasive species" destroys the production of honey here in No. America, now that just makes jolly good sense.

Lets get rid of the truly "invasive" ones and send the White men back to Europe.
 
Yup, lets destroy the "invasive species" with an "invasive chemical".

Remember how safe chlordane was back in the 50's/60's?
 
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