We Are Obsessed But Does It Really Matter

[zray1]

You have done this before.

Please stop injecting politics into this discussion. We have enough of that just about everywhere else.

My comment was 100% innocuous.

honestly is a societal issue, not political.

I’m sure the forum moderators can and will suspend or ban me if they feel I crossed the line.

Z

 

[aquariuscsm]

He was there… You were not. I am sure it threw a code if the car went into limp mode.

So what happens when someone in Russia fills their Accord (via Russian Honda owner’s manual) with 0W30, because that’s what it specs. Will it break down because US spec 0W20 wasn’t used?

 

[wpod]

Metaphor…

Metaphor or metaphive, two different things oil and blood.

 

[demarpaint]

So what happens when someone in Russia fills their Accord (via Russian Honda owner’s manual) with 0W30, because that’s what it specs. Will it break down because US spec 0W20 wasn’t used?

Clearly if the car were in the US it would self destruct. At least that seems to be the way some people think when it comes to deviating from the US car's fill cap oil grade stamping, or what's written in the OM.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Motorking could not be more wrong.

Totally agree--especially this part:

Absolutely. Thick oil will not get into the tiny bearing clearances of modern cars, causing way to much heat and bearing wear. I once put 20w50 mobil 1 in my CTS-V that called for 5w30. It went into limp in mode while driving at freeway speeds and oil temp shot up to 245 degrees

Tiny bearing clearances? The same ones that have been around for 50+ years? Those tiny clearances?

 

[wpod]

Great, then maybe someone can explain why every real world study shows that the vast majority of engine wear takes place in the first 20 minutes of engine operation from a cold start...

In a cold engine the fuel air mixture is richer because of reduced atomization. That leads to oil wash down from the cylinder and the blow by is acidic which adds to the wear. Pistons are machined oval and expand to [round] when at operating temps, the engine clearances are larger on a cold engine loser means more wear [ and more blow by]. We must add the instant of only residual oil for a few seconds when the engine first starts up under ideal conditions and some what to a point the heat activated oils anti wear additives may not yet be fully effective. We can see that engines that spend most of their time at operating temperatures have the least amount of wear.

 

[wpod]

The oil is basically generating its own heat through shear and reducing in viscosity because of that fact, there may be some equalization that takes place if we are doing a comparative, as a thinner oil will obviously start out at a lower viscosity but generate less heat and subsequently thin less quickly than a heavier oil that starts out at a higher viscosity but generates more heat and subsequently thins more quickly.

That said, if you have a coolant/oil heat exchanger, like I dare say most modern vehicles do at this juncture, then the oil is brought up to temperature by the coolant; it is thinned quite rapidly due to that heat, and this is far quicker than would happen otherwise.

What is amazing is the heat generated in hydraulic systems. Especially considering there is a pump and a drive motor which is a pump and some control valves and restrictions etc.

 

[aquariuscsm]

I remember years ago someone said if you use anything thicker than 0W20, the oil won’t be able to get into the “nooks and crannies” of the engine haha!

 

[TiGeo]

Clearly if the car were in the US it would self destruct. At least that seems to be the way some people think when it comes to deviating from the US car's fill cap oil grade stamping, or what's written in the OM.

I suspsect most of this is driven by confusion by the general public w/r to how your new vehicle manufacturer's warranty works and dealers that spew "warranty void" garbage for all sorts of deviations from the owner's manual.

 

[demarpaint]

I suspsect most of this is driven by confusion by the general public w/r to how your new vehicle manufacturer's warranty works and dealers that spew "warranty void" garbage for all sorts of deviations from the owner's manual.

Confusion for sure, and there's some bad info posted on a lot of message boards as well. That can often fuel confusion.

 

[OVERKILL]

It’s not the DI that’s producing that soot, that is the result of very rich mixture under boost. I don’t think you will find a NA DI engine car with the same residue. Which has always interested me from an emissions standpoint. Open loop is a license to pollute apparently.

Pretty sure the GM LSx engines that are now DI, soot loading was the reason for AMSOIL to reduce the OCI interval for their filters, due to rapid loading. Just like with the TGDI ones, some marques (BMW) are markedly better at keeping the fuel and other contaminants out of the oil, I assume due to better ECM programming. I would also assume that engine design has a significant impact here, the old LSx isn't a pent-roof DOHC setup, so that may also be a contributor.

 

[TiGeo]

Confusion for sure, and there's some bad info posted on a lot of message boards as well. That can often fuel confusion.

100% - many folks are warranty-obsessed as if it's the only way they can own the car so I get being concerned about running any oils beyond what the book says.

 

[Bill_W]

The vast majority of car owners will do what is in the owner’s manual. But my owner’s manual has a choice. 6 month OCI for severe service or 1 year or 10,000 miles. The vast majority of severe service owner’s do not know they are they are in that category. Short trips, low mileage.

Now comes in a more expensive oil. Gotta be better… Hmmm… We all want what is best. Get the info here.

IMO everyone should assume they are severe service OCI. Any good oil will be better using that OCI schedule. The 20,000 mile oil has a disclaimer to follow the owner’s manual recommendations. The car manufacturers know human nature and you will not choose severe service.

Wear is due to unclean oil. Wear is adhesive, abrasive, fatigue and corrosive.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Pistons are machined oval and expand to [round] when at operating temps ...

Pistons skirts are always oval by design, they don't go from oval to round when heating up - they do expand, but stay oval shaped. The diameter of the piston skirt is always oval shaped, regatdless of temperate.

The crown of a piston where the ring grooves are is round. A cold piston with excessive skirt to cylinder clearance that is "piston slapping" is titling in the cylinder more, and that can cause the crown and rings to also tilt and possibly cause more ring wear and blow-by until the piston warms up and expands to tighten up the piston skirt to cylinder clearance. Also, piston skirt length is a factor in keeping the piston rocking in the cylinder to a minimum. Shorter stroke engines can use shorter skirt pistons.

 

[Shel_B]

Also, piston skirt length is a factor in keeping the piston rocking in the cylinder to a minimum. Shorter stroke engines can use shorter skirt pistons.

Your comment reminded me of the 1937 Chevrolet-produced short film on engine lubrication. Here's a screen shot showing the length of a piston back before WWII:

 

[doyall]

... my overall favorite is Renewable Lubricants Inc. ...

I'll give you this, you are indeed bold using an non-approved-grade, unlicensed-formula motor oil in the engines you do and appear not be the least bit worried about warranty claims.

 

[UncleDave]

Sure, it's a hobby for many. But does it really make any difference what oil we use? Few are going to extract every mile possible out of their engines.

Many say that architects who design buildings know nothing about what it actually takes to build something. All they know is theory. I believe there are those here who are just this way, theory only.

I like to experiment in most things I decide to pursue. It could be the type of mulch in the garden, the construction of my model radio controlled jets, diving gear, and of course the use of motor oils. This is something I have studied with experiments when in high school a long time ago in a galaxy far far away. I guess it was a friend of my fathers who worked as a chemist in the oil department of Shell. Also, in part, why I studied biochemistry.

So what is there in doing the "usual" with little actual variation. Yes, I obviously like to push the envelope. But how does one move ahead doing just the usual? Take one for the team. For the new year I suggest branching out of the box and doing experiments. There must be something each of us can do where the risk is minimal but still revealing.

I have started by using a 5 grade oil in a Lincoln Navigator that is spec'ed for a 30 grade oil. I feel comfortable because I know that viscosity is temperature dependent. I am not pulling a 10,000lb trailer, on a 5 mile steep uphill grade, in Arizona in the middle of the summer. I have actually seen at least 1 MPG increase in fuel economy and a definite feeling of get-up-and-go. I feel comfortable raving it up when the oil has not reached operating temperature.

Some will say there will be additives that are not activated. They need a higher temperature. But then many say it's only the oil that does the job. It is plenty thick at these reduced temperatures so the MOFT must be fine. It comes back to using the viscosity for your particular application. I have provided evidence that a 20 grade oil can be used in a Ferrari Enzo that specs a 60 grade oil. And with several modes telling the engine is fine. But again, I am not running the car on the track. I am using a 30 grade oil in the 812 Superfast that is spec'ed for a 40 grade oil. Do I hear 20?

ali

For most cars, it probably doesn't matter much.

For sports cars actually sporting, tow vehicles, boats, motorhomes, and high duty cycle equipment, it matters a lot.

Fun to watch you experiment. Thanks.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Time to go with 0W-16 on the track for the real "test".

 

[OVERKILL]

Pistons skirts are always oval by design, they don't go from oval to round when heating up - they do expand, but stay oval shaped. The diameter of the piston skirt is always oval shaped, regatdless of temperate.

The crown of a piston where the ring grooves are is round. A cold piston with excessive skirt to cylinder clearance that is "piston slapping" is titling in the cylinder more, and that can cause the crown and rings to also tilt and possibly cause more ring wear and blow-by until the piston warms up and expands to tighten up the piston skirt to cylinder clearance. Also, piston skirt length is a factor in keeping the piston rocking in the cylinder to a minimum. Shorter stroke engines can use shorter skirt pistons.

Yes, and even since the 80's, skirts have gotten a lot shorter. The short skirts and bulk-fit process is what made the early LSx engines "slappers".

 

[ZeeOSix]

Yes, and even since the 80's, skirts have gotten a lot shorter. The short skirts and bulk-fit process is what made the early LSx engines "slappers".

My Z06 (with LS6) had slight piston slap for about 2 minutes, it was very minor. After that the engine was pretty quiet.