VW is ending the manual for the GTI.

[supton]

Not surprised. More surprised that manuals lasted this long in a day of traction control, vehicle stability control and emissions controls.

Besides, "many" had complaints about rev-hang over the years. I believe not all makes had problems, but I do recall a thread or two about how VW's 1.5T did not have the same bad rev-hang as the 1.4T. Good, but perhaps VW decided they couldn't fix rev-hang going forward, multiplied that by issues with TC/VSC, and said "it's time".

 

[dumkid]

Why can't I just have a car less than 2000 lbs with a manual and a nice high revving engine. I don't need no traction control or sbp or direct injection, I just want something like a 1999 Integra R

 

[Torrid]

Why can't I just have a car less than 2000 lbs with a manual and a nice high revving engine. I don't need no traction control or sbp or direct injection, I just want something like a 1999 Integra R

Safety regs.

 

[97prizm]

And at the same time, sales of manuals is going up big time. But it is VW, it takes time to catch trend.

Yeah the USA and Canada have a 50% plus order rate. There was talk of this a little while back. If Europe goes ahead with its stupid Euro 7 emissions the manual transmission would get the axe. The manual produces .2 grams more per kilometer than the dsg oh the horror.

 

[dumkid]

Safety regs.

Make it a kit car? Those seem to have less regulation

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

And at the same time, sales of manuals is going up big time. But it is VW, it takes time to catch trend.

Where is that info at? Every manufacturer must be ignoring their sales data then…

Show us just a single manufacturer where their overall percentage of manuals is going up vs CVT or auto… not individual models, for the whole manufacturer. Even Subaru has begun chopping manuals from base models… unheard of!

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Safety regs.

Operator skill and mindfulness will save more lives than any possible safety regulation.

If people knew how to handle their vehicles while in a slide, numerous lives would be saved.

It’s just another wealth transfer rather than actual improvement.

 

[E150GT]

Here is a story of a manufacturer that complains that there is no take rate, yet the reason there is no take rate is because they simply don't make them! Catch 22.

First they had a V6 with a manual. They said the v6 had a low take rate, so they opted for a 4 cylinder turbo but still offered a manual. After 3 years they dropped the manual (even though it cost nothing to offer the option since this same engine and transmission was put in one of their most famous cars). Then they claimed that the 2.0 turbo had a low take rate, so they got rid of it and made the car hybrid only. Yet they still make the v6. They still make the 2.0 turbo. And still make the manual. It costs them nothing to mount the **** thing into the chassis and call it a day, they do it in several other models. The "take rate is low" because they don't offer it. Then the come out and say "their most popular model in 2023 is a hybrid". DUH! The hybrid is the only one with heated seats, more than 2 speakers, and a decent options! Of course no one will buy the gas only when its more expensive than their cheaper cars that have more options for less money *****. Company: Honda. Want a decent engine and transmission? Go buy acura for 10-15k more! Heck, I can go buy the k20 turbo with a manual and ecu and harness as a crate motor for 9000$ online FROM HONDA WITH A WARRANTY and just do my own swap.

Toyota does the same thing. They claim the camry take rate is low, yet every v6 camry is presold months in advance! The wait list is thousands of miles long, and guess what..."the v6 sales are low". Hmm I wonder who happned to "restrict their manufacturing" to fudge the numbers. Ah yes, its because we up sell to lexus that only offers the V6 as a base engine, and it has an amazing v6 take rate (wonder why).

These stories that "no one buys them" is a lie, completely made up. Sure, manuals are lower than auto's, and v6's are lower than 4 cylinders, but that has been the case for 20+ years...nothing has changed, what has changed is "how can we keep the price the same or higher while using less".

Well Mazda is dead to me

 

[Torrid]

Yeah the USA and Canada have a 50% plus order rate. There was talk of this a little while back. If Europe goes ahead with its stupid Euro 7 emissions the manual transmission would get the axe. The manual produces .2 grams more per kilometer than the dsg oh the horror.

I think that's just them saying they don't want to put the money into developing a new manual. I would assume if it had an extra gear and similar ratios to the DSG it wouldn't be a problem. I know with sound requirements manual transmissions are getting screwed up to keep sound down. The other option sometimes made is to neuter the exhaust to keep the gearing optimal for the transmission. Unfortunately there's a lot more to killing the manual than people not buying them. They sell just fine in performance applications since they attract enthusiasts.

Operator skill and mindfulness will save more lives than any possible safety regulation.

If people knew how to handle their vehicles while in a slide, numerous lives would be saved.

It’s just another wealth transfer rather than actual improvement.

Agreed, but it's easier to legislate safety standards as opposed to promoting attentiveness.

 

[Torrid]

Make it a kit car? Those seem to have less regulation

Yeah, but then that's just building your own car and if anyone specializes in building them for us then it's expensive and if they make too many it'll have to meet those regulations anyway.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Agreed, but it's easier to legislate safety standards as opposed to promoting attentiveness.

Is it more expedient, or is it more effective? We need to start rejecting virtue signaling… requiring people to take a minimum level HPDE with a skills test required to pass would save many more lives than regulations do, at a lower cost, and while employing more people.

Just Say No… to pandering.

 

[Torrid]

Is it more expedient, or is it more effective? We need to start rejecting virtue signaling… requiring people to take a minimum level HPDE with a skills test required to pass would save many more lives than regulations do, at a lower cost, and while employing more people.

Just Say No… to pandering.

Have you see the average driver on the road? The only thing I've seen is different is that I have video evidence when I drive the Tesla.

I don't even know that I would call it virtue signaling, though you know how stupid I think that term is. I think what the main issue is that someone continuously needs to prove their importance when it comes to vehicle safety standards. The last no ABS, no traction control car I ever had was a 2005 Nissan Sentra SE-R SpecV. I doubt it was the last car to not have ABS, but it had to be close. It actually had a factory ABS delete because it had the Brembo big brake package. Ever since I've had any other car I felt like I've had to fight them to actually make sure traction control and any form of active yaw control is off. I can't fully defeat all of it on my GTI without a tune.

 

[Ronsant]

Safety regs.

Safety second!

 

[Ronsant]

Seriously, I can’t believe that the GTI will be auto only. The Vette bothers me too, but at least I understand that the rear engine design required some engineering decisions to be made.

the GTI is a turbo 4 cylinder front wheel drive car for enthusiasts. What the heck VW?
Are the manufacturers abandoning the few enthusiasts left, or are there statistically no enthusiasts to cater to?

 

[Torrid]

Safety second!

I thought it was bumped back to safety third.

 

[Torrid]

Seriously, I can’t believe that the GTI will be auto only. The Vette bothers me too, but at least I understand that the rear engine design required some engineering decisions to be made.

the GTI is a turbo 4 cylinder front wheel drive car for enthusiasts. What the heck VW?
Are the manufacturers abandoning the few enthusiasts left, or are there statistically no enthusiasts to cater to?

No, it's apparently an issue with fuel economy and emissions regulations for Europe. They had already ended the manual in the Golf R, but the US still has it for now. Apparently 2024 will be the last year of the manual for it as well. The problem with the Golf R is at stock numbers of the DSG the clutch can't keep up, so they backed off power delivery in the stick version.

I know this car is and has been developed with the DSG in mind for years now, but that doesn't stop me from wanting the manual. I'll wait for the time being to see what happens if I actually decide to get it. I want it, but my car is like new now because that's how I always take care of my things. I just don't know if it makes sense to trade it. Completely emotional purchase for sure and I'm not so sure the new one is the better car.

 

[Wylie6G72]

Sad to think this is coming about because people aren't teaching their kids how to row their own anymore. I understand traffic has reached a point where manuals are rarely fun for the typical owner anymore, but it's just a sad passing for those of us who got the chance to learn and use this skill as a part of enjoying the drive.

 

[edyvw]

Where is that info at? Every manufacturer must be ignoring their sales data then…

Show us just a single manufacturer where their overall percentage of manuals is going up vs CVT or auto… not individual models, for the whole manufacturer. Even Subaru has begun chopping manuals from base models… unheard of!

Considering Subaru’s strategy last decade, I am really not sure how any car enthusiasts would say: “yes, that is brand for me.” I mean, they managed to outdo Buick and Toyota together. They made excellent business call, but…

As for others:
https://www.theautopian.com/manual-gearbox-popularity/

Manual gearbox was always rarity in the States. So, it is niche market, but market that can have marketing opportunities.

 

[edyvw]

Yeah the USA and Canada have a 50% plus order rate. There was talk of this a little while back. If Europe goes ahead with its stupid Euro 7 emissions the manual transmission would get the axe. The manual produces .2 grams more per kilometer than the dsg oh the horror.

I know it is emissions driven. VW decided to squeeze living hell out of EA888. They think it will be able to carry them over until full EV. But, there are signs in Europe that hard push to EV might be soften as economic numbers are abysmal.

 

[andrew_j]

I won’t be able to pick one up due to first year of collegefor daughter. When she graduates hopefully can find a used Golf R or GTI manual.

for ME its a manual or NO sale!! finding a manual in a preowned frontier 4 wd was not easy either, got a lo mile 2011 + love it. only other slushboxes were order classic cars!! manufacturers shun manuals because automatics are easier to control emissions!!

No one wants manuals in normal cars. So they don’t make them.

The sales numbers don’t lie …