That's pretty much what a compressor does, and yes they do get hot
Viscosity Grade recommendation for Death Valley
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That's pretty much what a compressor does, and yes they do get hot
Quite clear now you did not want an informed community answer with this thread.
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This is not always true. I have a super duty towing a 15,000 lb grand design solitude that shows differently. I’ve also test driven lots of cars on dealer scanner and that shows differently as well.
Your response has nothing really related to what I described. There is heat generated and causing the oil to heat up due to friction and oil shearing. @Jetronic example of an air compressor is a good example. Your're talking about an engine system with active cooling involved. Take active cooling away like I described and the oil will get pretty hot just from friction and shearing.
You are absolutely correct in the sense that I have NOT read anything in this thread to change my mind and only confirmation that what I have been doing, is the right thing.
However, I learned misc other stuff so it is a good thread.
My only mistake was to say "what do you recommend?" in my op.
I meant to only say what do you use? Just to collect information and maybe revise my ways. And not necessarily that I am desperate, please help me. So it was just a data gathering and chatting thread for me.
My initial post (#1) was that I use 40 and stout 30 viscosity grade under some given condition ...
Now what are the conditions?
Long and high speed trip (speed limit is 80 mph in some parts) with a very loaded car and stuff on the roof rack and very high ambient temperatures! I explained that in post #163.
Also mentioned that I like and have used 30 grade other times (post #195) and that M1 EP 10W-30 is one of my favorites and may also try Castrol Edge (German?) 0W-30.
What do the experts say?
From @MolaKule (post #211)
"I would go up a grade from the suggested owner manual's for the temperature to be expected and have my cooling system flushed and new coolant added."
What does my OM recommend? 5W/20
What's a grade up? 30
What have I been using? 40 or 30
So we are cool!
Do I listen to experts with real PhD? Yes!
Do I listen to "internet experts"?
Most likely NOT. Unless I have a good read on them!
Do I listen to @ZeeOSix aka MOFT Chairman? Yes.
Either I have a good read on him or I think he has a master's or PhD or all of the above!
What else do I like?
In general, stout oils with narrow spread, less vm, and lower Noack if I can help! Sometimes I ignore that (narrow spread) when there is good sale on Euro 0W-40 oils having solid approvals! Also considering that they have a naturally higher vi so it (spread) doesn't bother me as much!
Now all these other distractions and taking things out of context is just the internet thing and I understand ... As an example, in this thread, the rise in the oil temperature (or lack thereof) due to its chemistry (baseoil, viscosity, spread, shearing, etc.) was NOT my main concern even though some may have assumed so. I was more concerned with having adequate MOFT due to high rmp, high load and high ambient temperature. And I mentioned that in couple of other threads by saying "Long live MOFT".
It's all about MOFT baby.
btw, were you part of the "informed community"?
If so, I may have missed your contributions. I need to go back and re-read the entire thread if I have time.
So once again, I got the info and the confirmation from the sources that matter and also learned a few tricks and other stuff including cooling system tweaks, etc. Something I knew but never applied since I'm not racing down to Vegas. However, it was a good reminder. So I'm happy with my 50/50 but flushing it with new coolant as suggested is a good idea as well.
Long short story:
I brought bunch of bees to the classroom (youthful indiscretion or stupid idea) and was sent to the principle office.
Him and bunch of teachers were talking and sometimes had a heated debate while I was waiting for my mom to get there ... and I learned tons of "inside information"!
Next day, my teacher said, you didn't learn anything, did you?
I smiled and wanted to say, obviously I missed the class subject (which I didn't care anyway) but learned much more valuable stuff, but didn't do it.
You can learn stuff in any environment. What to do with it, is another question!
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When it comes to places like Death Valley, machines are much tougher than the people who are operating them.
https://www.foxweather.com/extreme-...t-death-valley-national-park?dicbo=v2-6XA2cFT
https://www.foxweather.com/extreme-...t-death-valley-national-park?dicbo=v2-6XA2cFT
True, but some machines know their limits.
Thin air I assume!
"According to the NPS, due to the record high of 128 degrees, emergency medical flight helicopters were unable to respond because of the extreme heat. The high on Saturday broke the daily record for Death Valley previously set in 2007."
Thin air I assume!
"According to the NPS, due to the record high of 128 degrees, emergency medical flight helicopters were unable to respond because of the extreme heat. The high on Saturday broke the daily record for Death Valley previously set in 2007."
This has been a problem in the discussion since the beginning.
At 128 F I would love to know the density altitude. Death Valley is below sea level.
That’s because the rise in oil temperature at low rpm from shear can be rejected to ambient as quickly as it’s heated.
Take the same engine and run it unloaded at 4,000 rpm and you will see a big rise in oil temperature.
An industrial application of this observation is locomotive engines that have a maximum rpm of 1050 and produce about 5,000 horsepower at the crank.
Increasing the rpm to 1050 unloaded from a 250 rpm idle does not increase the oil temperature observed on the screen, however after 15 minutes of full power the oil temperature reaches 190F and the oil coolers cut in. The oil temperature drops to 180F and stays there.
If I drive my Dodge Van at 60 mph the coolant temperature gauge stays in the normal range. If I drive over 60 the gauge goes up. I've always assumed this to be more friction at higher rpm.
Perfect for max power 1/4 mile runs! Of course using 60 grade because of that ambient temp.
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it has to be at best one smidgen more than sea level..
I just found the weather station in Badwater basin in Death Valley and station is 219 feet below sea level
unfortunately they don't give atmospheric pressure.
but other data is here and here.
https://mesowest.utah.edu/cgi-bin/droman/meso_base_dyn.cgi?stn=BWBC1&time=GMT
https://mesowest.utah.edu/cgi-bin/droman/station_total.cgi?stn=BWBC1&unit=0
I pulled up actual weather right now there to get the dew point. I was a little elevated (ha ha!) in my initial calculation.
am i the ony one that understood that his question and obviously the subject of his new post after 6 years was the same one with the old one back then? " ambient temparature is that determines what viscosity you need" "oil temp v. ambient temp" in a mask question what do you use????
what exactly did he expect bitog members to answer ?what they used 6 years before of course.
so he thought that either bitog changed its mind and agrees with him or that he is now full of new knowledge and wanted to argue with bitog based on that, so to win the case this time.
touche
what exactly did he expect bitog members to answer ?what they used 6 years before of course.
so he thought that either bitog changed its mind and agrees with him or that he is now full of new knowledge and wanted to argue with bitog based on that, so to win the case this time.
touche
Have you logged your oil temps with the 20 grade and 40 grade? Forgot if I ask this or not. They should be roughly the same with the 20 being a bit lower overall.Death Valley is about 130F.
For my 0/5W-20 passenger cars, I prefer using a good 40 weight synthetic or at a minimum a very stout 30 unless I'm driving downhill.
Last 2 trips to Nevada, I used 40 and iirc, it wasn't even hotter than 95F.
What do you use or recommend?
My estimated hp/trap/ET vs. DA data. Based on this I'd be in the 11s if I could run on a cold morning in Death Valley. Blue vs. orange data points are different turbos (orange is larger).
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yes, it is virtually an air cooled engine without combustion. pressure is what causes the heat. Maintenance free compressors notice don't last long bc there is no oil to take the heat from pressure away, they typically throw a rod. oiled compressors last virtually forever.
Yep, that's why there are recommended "oil viscosity vs ambient air temperature" charts in most owners manuals, until CAFE neutered some of that. Motorcycles all seem to still show those charts, even for water cooled engines. The hotter the max expected ambient temps, the thicker recommended.oil viscosity. If I lived where it was extremely hot, I sure wouldn't be using xW-20 even if the manual "recommended" it. Go up a grade or even two and get some more MOFT headroom. That's the same reason sports car makers say to go a grade or two up for track use. High RPM and loads on the track gets oil hotter, and you need more viscosity to retain enough MOFT to protect moving parts.
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