Death Valley Drive Using Thin Oil

[OilUzer]

Summer is approaching and we do one trip to Nevada with a loaded car and I change to a Euro A3/B4 40 grade (M1 or Catrol) and make sure tires, PSI, coolant and cooling system is in good shape ...

My car OM says 20 grade but I normally run 5/10W-30 with M1 EP being the only 10W I use and I sometimes even use Euro 30 locally in the summer months.

That was just some background info but here is the question or concern:
If I ever owned a car with 0W-8/16 spec, I would really be afraid of driving a loaded car uphill at the speed limit (high RPM) when it's ~120°F outside with the air conditioning running full blast (dog must stay very cool ) ... Wouldn't that be a valid concern?

For example some of the hybrids don't aid with the electric motor going uphill. Do they? Do they have engine oil cooler?

I mean is there adequate MOFT for a summer time Death Valley drive using 8 or 16 grade under these conditions?

 

[Lockasiam]

HPL PCMO 10W-20

what's the rate of consumption if there is any, my 3.8 liked to chug the 20 weights

 

[RDY4WAR]

what's the rate of consumption if there is any, my 3.8 liked to chug the 20 weights

Not much, but it consumed a little bit when I got it. It would consume ~0.5 qt in 2,000-2,500 miles. Now on the 3rd change with HPL, it's down just 0.25-quart at ~5,600 miles.

 

[Lockasiam]

Not much, but it consumed a little bit when I got it. It would consume ~0.5 qt in 2,000-2,500 miles. Now on the 3rd change with PCMO 10W-20, it's down just 0.25-quart at ~5,600 miles.

so basically HPL is really good at cleaning crud

 

[RDY4WAR]

so basically HPL is really good at cleaning crud

Yes. HPL employs specific esters in their oils that are great at slowly dissolving carbonaceous deposits.

 

[edyvw]

I drove a rental Chrysler Minivan(0W20) from Phoenix to Southern California near the Mexican boarder in 120*F )))HEAT(((
to see my nephew(US Boarder Patrol) and the engine never faltered. I actually got a speeding ticket for going over 80 mph.

It is not oil, it is cooling system effectiveness.
I ran BMW to 300f oil temperature on track. And still did 5k OCI. I could hit 270/280f before installing oil cooler going skiing in 20f ambient temperature bcs. air density. Simply, cooling system cannot dissipate heat efficiently at altitude. Sea level or below is no problem.
If there is a concern, and there shouldn’t be, just dilute coolant with distilled water.

 

[tvaughn]

For some Americans, that is a typical summer day; thinner oil actually retains less heat. But as edyvw says, it's altitude that's harder on cooling systems than ambient temperatures.

P.S. I enjoy going off-roading in Death Valley National Park during the summer, always make sure to have a few gallons of water and food in the car. Lastly, be careful wandering far in the park- people do get disoriented/heat stroke, and bad things can happen quickly.

 

[Chris142]

For some Americans, that is a typical summer day; thinner oil actually retains less heat. But as edyvw says, it's altitude that's harder on cooling systems than ambient temperatures.

P.S. I enjoy going off-roading in Death Valley National Park during the summer, always make sure to have a few gallons of water and food in the car. Lastly, be careful wandering far in the park- people do get disoriented/heat stroke, and bad things can happen quickly.

Have you seen the video wonderhussy did on the German family that died out there?

 

[tvaughn]

Have you seen the video wonderhussy did on the German family that died out there?

I know the story, I was a kid when that happened, living in San Diego, and it made the news: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_Valley_Germans

There are more stories like that, 125-130+ degree heat in a place where sometimes all directions look the same can become a serious issue quicker than people realize.

 

[Jetronic]

I've monitored oil temps in most of our vehicles in various climates and conditions. 2002 Tahoe 5.3L, 2012 Mustang 3.7L, 2007 Grand Caravan 3.3L, and 2006 Altima 2.5L. Cruising at 70 mph on the highway, all of them showed less than a 10°F change in operating oil temp with an 80°F swing in ambient temperature. The biggest difference was just in how long it took to get there, and even that wasn't a substantial margin.

I don't think the oil cares as much about ambient temperature when it's surrounded by 200°F coolant, passing through 250°F bearings, and splashing on 450°F cylinder walls.

RPM was the biggest driver of higher oil temps in my last car with oil temp gauge. That was an NA engine with an oil cooler and thermostat, and finned sump.

the thermostat helped with keeping the oil at 80°C (minimum) but drive higher pms and the temps go up. Of course, the load kinda goes up aswell, this engine also had squirters aimed at the pistons, so some heat will have come from there. 5w-40 and 0w-40 used in that engine while I had it.

 

[FTTSHO]

0w20 will be more than adequate. You’ll actually not benefit from going thicker, because even when you drive through Death Valley, your oil temp and coolant temp should stay within the normal range if your cooling system is working properly, and if you’re driving normally.

I would honestly worry more about making sure the cooling system is upto the task.

i don’t think most average driver that gets oil changes from dealers and drives around Death Valley ever thinks about using thicker oil for “added protection” and their cars do just fine.

 

[Nessism1]

You are already moving up one grade, no need for two. I'd focus attention on other parts of the vehicle before the trip, making sure all the maintenance is up to date.

 

[RDY4WAR]

RPM was the biggest driver of higher oil temps in my last car with oil temp gauge. That was an NA engine with an oil cooler and thermostat, and finned sump.

the thermostat helped with keeping the oil at 80°C (minimum) but drive higher pms and the temps go up. Of course, the load kinda goes up aswell, this engine also had squirters aimed at the pistons, so some heat will have come from there. 5w-40 and 0w-40 used in that engine while I had it.

That's logical since the largest contributor to oil heat is hydrodynamic friction.

 

[Olds394]

Lubrication Engineers tech line once told me they would switch from 5w-30 to 10w-30, if they were driving through Death Valley. ymmv

 

[RDY4WAR]

Lubrication Engineers tech line once told me they would switch from 5w-30 to 10w-30, if they were driving through Death Valley. ymmv

If a lubricant engineer told you that, they need to hand over their CLS cert. The only difference there is the winter rating. A 5W-xx is good down to -22°F and 10W-xx down to -14°F. They're both 30 grade oils with a kinematic viscosity between 9.3 - 12.4 cSt @ 212°F so that wouldn't help you. In fact, if we're talking about common API oils off the shelf, the 10W-30 would likely fair worse than the 5W-30. The narrower multi-grade can be achieved with cheaper, lower quality base oils, and since the major brands are all in a race to the bottom, they happily exploit that.

 

[OilUzer]

Part of me was thinking if taking a very small displacement engine that may run out of charge + a minor league (weak) oil into a major league country may start a new NBC Dateline series Death of MOFT. But I stand somewhat corrected.

 

[K24Z7&M20AFXS]

If you are so worried get one of these gadgets and watch your hybrid Toyota's oil temperature. You will be surprised. That 0w16 is behaving like a freakin 0w30 at those temperatures.

View attachment 279130

What device is that?

 

[ChrisD46]

It’s interesting that a 20 weight oil run in an engine with a good working cooling system can be operated in hot summer months with no issues . Yet the owners manual lists four different oil weights to use - depending on ambient outdoor temps. Additionally, a 20 weight oil sheds heat supposedly better than a 30 weight oil with less friction but here again if your outdoor temps are over 100 degrees F. then a 30 weight oil is often recommended ... It can seem like a contradiction - is it possible that both are correct for higher heat applications OR does the higher ambient temp make the use of a 30 weight oil more desirable over the 20 weight oil ?

 

[Lockasiam]

It’s interesting that a 20 weight oil run in an engine with a good working cooling system can be operated in hot summer months with no issues . Yet the owners manual lists four different oil weights to use - depending on ambient outdoor temps. Additionally, a 20 weight oil sheds heat supposedly better than a 30 weight oil with less friction but here again if your outdoor temps are over 100 degrees F. then a 30 weight oil is often recommended ... It can seem like a contradiction - is it possible that both are correct for higher heat applications OR does the higher ambient temp make the use of a 30 weight oil more desirable over the 20 weight oil ?

thicker oils are preferred for high heat scenarios because they have good film thickness at higher temps than lower weight oil

 

[mark pruett]

Is this hypothetical car air-cooled?

That's really the big question here. If your cooling system is the normal liquid cooling type (i.e. radiator), the main thing that's important is that it is functioning well.

If it is, then the internal temps of your engine won't really vary too much from what the thermostat indicates and you'll be fine. And if it isn't working well, then the grade of oil you've got in there is probably low on the list of things you'll have to worry about at that point.

That said, it's not really that hard of a drive. Towne Pass coming from the west is about the worst of it that I remember, and I ended up driving a big chunk of the park four times in three days, since we flew into Vegas and stayed in Lone Pine, CA. So it was across, then drive around the park checking out the stuff, then back to Lone Pine, then back across to Vegas again.

 

[Glenda W.]

My 18 Outback is the first vehicle I’ve owned with an oil temp reading. In the winter oil temps range from 200-210. In the summer they range from 230-240. I live in mountainous terrain so severe service. I know turbo Subaru owners have reported much less oil temp swings, IMO due to better oil cooling. IMO it’s vehicle dependent. I have always used 30 grade oils.