Vespa GTS 300 HPE - Oil Specs Question

[muddyboots]

What oil would YOU run in this engine?

Manual specifies fully synthetic:
“SAE 5W-40; JASO MA, MA2; API SL; ACEA A3”

I’m surprised that they specify the JASO MA/MA2 rather than MB as this not a wet clutch.

Wouldn’t a JASO MB oil be a lower friction and “better“ oil in this engine?

An example of an oil that meets the spec is the Castrol Power1 4T JASO MA2, API SL

Aside from the 10W vs 5W, why wouldn’t something like the JASO MB, API SN below be as good or better?

MOTUL SCOOTER POWER 10W-30 MB 4T
100% SYNTHETIC
API SN/SM/SL/SJ
JASO MB - M033MOT170

Why is a JASO MB oil not specified?
What am I missing? Can somebody help me understand?

 

[Graham Piccinini]

Honda does this too with their scooters... I'll try to explain.
JASO spec is completely irrelevant here. That recommendation is the result of a COPY-PASTE from other Piaggio/Vespa models. Not necessarily the optimum oil for this specific engine.
With this in mind - go with a 5W-40 or 0W-40. Engine is very car-like. It's liquid-cooled and fuel injected. Temps are well controlled.
In my liquid-cooled scooters I use Mobil 1 0W-40. In my air-cooled scooter I used Redline 15W-50.
Again - no wet clutch/shared sump, so JASO spec is irrelevant here. It's annoying that manufacturers still do this...

 

[BusyLittleShop]

What oil would YOU run in this engine?

Any one of 30 grade 100% synthetic motorcycle specific or not oils will meet
and exceed your mileage expectations...

My current favorite oil for my exotic RC45...

 

[CleanSump]

a) Manual says MA. Use MA
b) Manual says use 5W-40. Don't use 10W-30.
c) Have you tested the machine enough to know better than the manufacturer?
Not trying to be a smart Alec, but why do people assume they know better than the manufacturer, then go online seeking affirmation?

 

[muddyboots]

a) Manual says MA. Use MA
b) Manual says use 5W-40. Don't use 10W-30.
c) Have you tested the machine enough to know better than the manufacturer?
Not trying to be a smart Alec, but why do people assume they know better than the manufacturer, then go online seeking affirmation?

Maybe my question was per poorly worded. I’m asking specifically about the JSO MA versus MB specification. I have no objection to the oil weight or Motorcycle spec.

 

[muddyboots]

a) Manual says MA. Use MA
b) Manual says use 5W-40. Don't use 10W-30.
c) Have you tested the machine enough to know better than the manufacturer?
Not trying to be a smart Alec, but why do people assume they know better than the manufacturer, then go online seeking affirmation?

To be clear, I am not suggesting that I know more than the manufacturer nor am I questioning their specs, I am simply trying to understand them and why MA rather than MB was specified in this instance. Can you explain that to me?

 

[CleanSump]

Only the manufacturer can give you a definitive answer.
A few on here can take a very educated and likely correct answer at it.
Most of us can only give a guess based on what we know about motorcycle oils.
Bottom line is only the manufacturer knows why they spec'd what they did.

Good luck and safe putting. My wife has a Vespa. She's 65 and has ridden one since she was 13 or so.

 

[muddyboots]

Only the manufacturer can give you a definitive answer.
A few on here can take a very educated and likely correct answer at it.
Most of us can only give a guess based on what we know about motorcycle oils.
Bottom line is only the manufacturer knows why they spec'd what they did.

Good luck and safe putting. My wife has a Vespa. She's 65 and has ridden one since she was 13 or so.

Thank you. This will be my first scooter. Other bikes right now are a Yamaha Super Tenere and a TDub. Scooter should be fun around town.

I goofed when I copied and pasted the 10W 30 oil above. I was focused on the JASO specs not the oil weight.

Back to the oil question, often with specifications like API you see statements like “API SJ or higher”. My understanding is that with JASO, MA and MA2 differ in the level of friction modifiers added for wet clutches. MB doesn’t have those friction modifiers as it is intended for dry clutch applications. (Right?) Online, people often refer to MB as being a “lower” standard and MA and MA2 being “higher” standards. I’m thinking that really they are more like different standards based on wet or dry clutch, and it would seem that for dry clutch applications MB would be technically better because it is “slicker” and doesn’t have the friction additives for clutch grab. Is this right? Aside from the wet/dry clutch issue, are there any other reasons for specifying MA/MA2 versus MB?

Again I’m not trying to second-guess what the manufacturer is specifying I’m just trying to understand what the specifications mean and generally when each would be used. Thanks.

 

[Greasymechtech]

Why? because tech writers don't have a clue

Since you are in Texas, I wouldn't worry about 10w40 vs 5w40... Just make sure its a motorcycle oil or hdeo. I am betting they want that higher z/p levels than API SP. Without knowing the running oil temps, I'd stick with full synthetic. Oil temps might be the reason for the 40 grade.

Castrol Power1 and Mobil1 have you covered. I wouldn't rule out any full synthetic euro/hdeo/4cycle 40 grade in an emergency.

Keep an eye on oil level. ~1.3+ quart sump could disappear quick.

80w90 GL4 for the transmission.... I wouldn't fear the common 75w90 GL4's. And, DOT4 brake fluid is available everywhere.

Owners manual I looked at stated 1st oil change at 620 miles(break in oil) and then every year or ~6200 miles. Doing the rough KM to M conversion. I'd probably go with a 3k/6mo interval for longevity sakes.

Oil filter? M14 thread screw on can? Stuck with OE, Mahle, and maybe K&N.

Honda CN250 Helix 250cc 'limo' was my favorite. Had an ancient Vespa 150 too. 300cc should be fun and economical. Enjoy the MPG.

 

[muddyboots]

Why? because tech writers don't have a clue

Since you are in Texas, I wouldn't worry about 10w40 vs 5w40... Just make sure its a motorcycle oil or hdeo. I am betting they want that higher z/p levels than API SP. Without knowing the running oil temps, I'd stick with full synthetic. Oil temps might be the reason for the 40 grade.

Castrol Power1 and Mobil1 have you covered. I wouldn't rule out any full synthetic euro/hdeo/4cycle 40 grade in an emergency.

Keep an eye on oil level. ~1.3+ quart sump could disappear quick.

80w90 GL4 for the transmission.... I wouldn't fear the common 75w90 GL4's. And, DOT4 brake fluid is available everywhere.

Owners manual I looked at stated 1st oil change at 620 miles(break in oil) and then every year or ~6200 miles. Doing the rough KM to M conversion. I'd probably go with a 3k/6mo interval for longevity sakes.

Oil filter? M14 thread screw on can? Stuck with OE, Mahle, and maybe K&N.

Honda CN250 Helix 250cc 'limo' was my favorite. Had an ancient Vespa 150 too. 300cc should be fun and economical. Enjoy the MPG.

Thank you, this is helpful.
Back in the 80’s I had a friend with a Helix. Love those bikes!

 

[ZeeOSix]

What oil would YOU run in this engine?

Manual specifies fully synthetic:
“SAE 5W-40; JASO MA, MA2; API SL; ACEA A3”

I’m surprised that they specify the JASO MA/MA2 rather than MB as this not a wet clutch.

Wouldn’t a JASO MB oil be a lower friction and “better“ oil in this engine?

An example of an oil that meets the spec is the Castrol Power1 4T JASO MA2, API SL

Aside from the 10W vs 5W, why wouldn’t something like the JASO MB, API SN below be as good or better?

MOTUL SCOOTER POWER 10W-30 MB 4T
100% SYNTHETIC
API SN/SM/SL/SJ
JASO MB - M033MOT170

Why is a JASO MB oil not specified?
What am I missing? Can somebody help me understand?

Does that Vespa have a transmission with gears? If so, are they lubricated with something separate from the oil that lubricates the engine?

 

[muddyboots]

Does that Vespa have a transmission with gears? If so, are they lubricated with something separate from the oil that lubricates the engine?

CVT.
Dry clutch.
Final drive has its own gear oil.

 

[muddyboots]

Keep an eye on oil level. ~1.3+ quart sump could disappear quick.

I’ve heard that this version (HPE) of the engine uses more than the previous version too.

 

[CleanSump]

Let us know what you decide. Curious as I just use the same Motul 10W-40 in my wife's Vespa as I do in my Yamaha.

 

[JoelB]

How do you like the scoot? I'm pondering one of these for next year but the $7300 price tag is STEEP compared to competitors.

 

[muddyboots]

Whatever it is, it will be based on availability. The Castrol seems to be sold out most places.
MOTUL seems to be widely in stock, both the 7100 SN Rated 5w40 and the SL rated 4T Scooter Power 5W40. I don't know. I'll let you know when I decide. I've been running M1 4T Racing from WallyWorld in my S10. Looks like I'll be ordering online for the Vespa to get the 5W40s.

 

[muddyboots]

How do you like the scoot? I'm pondering one of these for next year but the $7300 price tag is STEEP compared to competitors.

I pick it up in a couple days, so I'm not sure yet. It is a hefty premium over the other brands for sure. It wasn't on my list at the beginning because of that. While my wife and daughter have cars, right now the Yamaha Super Tenere (XT1200Z) is my daily driver and my "fun" vehicle. I actually started looking at smaller dual sports like the KLX300, CRF300L, etc. that would be more fun to zip around town on, and also easier on more technical stuff off-road. Then I pondered the facts that I would still be burning knobs on grocery runs, and would need rack, panniers, etc.

The more I looked at it, the more I realized that a bigger scooter would probably be more fun and more practical for the around-town, daily driver type stuff and might even be fun on longer rides. I might even get my wife or daughter driving the scooter. My daughter can ride a motorcycle, but she has no interest, and my wife has ridden scooters on one of our vacations.

Yamaha XMAX was at the top of my list initially, but can't find one in stock nearby, and used prices seem pretty high for what I've seen. Local dealer had the Honda ADV150 and PCX 150 in stock. They weren't comfortable for me and I was generally underwhelmed.

Found a 2016 Piaggio BV350 used, but it was almost as much new.
Found some other used bikes, but I don't want a project, I want to ride.

I had resisted the Vespa because of price and the hipster factor, but it seems like it might be closest to what I want, and it is actually available, which is a big thing right now. Seems like the Vesaps hold their value pretty well. Not sure they are my tribe, but there are Vespa clubs all over, so if I do take it touring, it might be fun to hook up and ride with locals in other places. That would be different than my current BDR-type trips. Once I started considering the Vespa, it just kind of hooked me. I don't know. You know how it is, we find something we want and come up with reasons to justify it. We'll see what I'm getting myself into.

I'll let you know how I like it when it is in my garage!

One thing I did notice about it is that this generation doesn't seem to have been designed with the service tech in mind. The dipstick to check the engine oil is placed behind the (hot) muffler, and to check the valves (6,000 miles) you have to partially drop the engine. This video shows the 6,000 mile service:

 

[JoelB]

I like Robot's videos actually, never owned a Vespa. But from watching him it's clear that the Vespa's require more care and effort over the life of the scooter. Nothing that would stop me buying one though.

I like the steel body, and they seem fairly compact for a 300cc. And even though you are paying for the name, Piaggio seems to put a scooter together pretty darn well. I'm curious your thoughts after you get it and have some time to enjoy.

 

[SuperSalad]

MB is fine if it isn't lubing the trans/clutch. MB isn't a lower standard, just a different specification for a different application than MA and the MA1/MA2 subcategories.

My best educated guess for why Vespa doesn't specify an MB oil is that they do not have an MB oil option in the brand they recommend. So they specify the best option in the limited selection they want customers to buy from.

 

[muddyboots]

I like Robot's videos actually, never owned a Vespa. But from watching him it's clear that the Vespa's require more care and effort over the life of the scooter. Nothing that would stop me buying one though.

I like the steel body, and they seem fairly compact for a 300cc. And even though you are paying for the name, Piaggio seems to put a scooter together pretty darn well. I'm curious your thoughts after you get it and have some time to enjoy.

I think I like the steel body too. I’ve read about some rust issues (especially in the uk), so I’ll be keeping an eye on that and consider it in my maintenance routine.