Valvoline Extended Protection Full Synthetic vs. Mobil 1 Extended Performance

LineArrayNut said:
And you should be using a 30 wt @ minimum
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The vehicle calls for 0-20, and I trust the engineers clearanced everything correctly for that weight oil pumped by that oil pump at those temps, etc. Honda builds more small engines than anyone else, and I trust their engineering.

I am most interested in the best 0-20 oil that can readily be bought at Wal-Mart.
 
The length of the OCI would be the deciding factor for me. If below 10,000 OCI, I would pick the Valvoline EP. It has a great add pack and that 300ppm of moly would keep it nice and quiet at that 20wt. The Mobil 1 EP 0w20 was super loud in my Toyota Tundra. Now, if if over 10,000, I would go with the Mobil 1 and just ignore the loudness LOL.

I am using the 5w30 Mobil 1 EP currently and it isn't loud like the 0w20 was...but this is a differnt engine as well, so...
 
Ws6 said:
The vehicle calls for 0-20, and I trust the engineers clearanced everything correctly for that weight oil pumped by that oil pump at those temps, etc. Honda builds more small engines than anyone else, and I trust their engineering.
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The "engineers" in all likelihood, didn't "call for" 0W-20...... The mileage demands that were placed on them by CAFE did.
 
Why does every thread involving xW-20 have to turn into a thick vs thin thread? 🤦🏼‍♂️ Some people choose to follow the manual, some people chose to go their own route. The OP wants to follow the manual, lets not give him grief over a decision that's his to make and not a "wrong" decision!

OP - I will 2nd Ford73's answer above. Personally I'd choose Valvoline EP 0w-20 because it has an excellent add pack and (from what I read) tends to be quieter in some engines. Either oil would do just fine though. 👍🏻
 
Addicted2jeepz said:
Why does every thread involving xW-20 have to turn into a thick vs thin thread? 🤦🏼‍♂️ Some people choose to follow the manual, some people chose to go their own route. The OP wants to follow the manual, lets not give him grief over a decision that's his to make and not a "wrong" decision!
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It's not so much of it being a "thick vs. thin" argument, as it is people believing and stating that it's the "engineers" who are the one's recommending and pushing all these water thin oils in modern engines. It's not. It's all being driven by CAFE mileage standards the manufactures are all trying to meet, and / or exceed.

If it wasn't, these thin oils would be recommended across the board, regardless of what country the vehicle is being sold in. And you would see the term, "USE ONLY" printed everywhere. They're not and it's not. Get out of the United States, where there are no CAFE standards, and it's an all but a certainty they "recommend" a higher viscosity.

$$$$ is the motivation here, not oils recommended by "engineers" for long engine life.
 
billt460 said:
It's not so much of it being a "thick vs. thin" argument, as it is people believing and stating that it's the "engineers" who are the one's recommending and pushing all these water thin oils in modern engines. It's not. It's all being driven by CAFE mileage standards the manufactures are all trying to meet, and / or exceed.

If it wasn't, these thin oils would be recommended across the board, regardless of what country the vehicle is being sold in. And you would see the term, "USE ONLY" printed everywhere. They're not and it's not. Get out of the Untied States, where there are no CAFE standards, and it's an all but a certainty they "recommend" a higher viscosity.

$$$$ is the motivation here, not oils recommended by "engineers" for long engine life.
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I don't disagree with what your reasoning, I just feel that some are too hard on people who choose to follow the owners manual. I'm not saying YOU were, just saying in general people start to bash others for following the manual.
In my opinion xW-30 is likely safe to use in most vehicles calling for a 20wt, but I also feel you're never "wrong" to follow your manual if that makes you feel safer, especially if warranty is a concern. Personally, I tend to follow the manual most times. 👍🏻
 
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Ws6 said:
The vehicle calls for 0-20, and I trust the engineers clearanced everything correctly for that weight oil pumped by that oil pump at those temps, etc. Honda builds more small engines than anyone else, and I trust their engineering.

I am most interested in the best 0-20 oil that can readily be bought at Wal-Mart.
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I would look at the same engine in different countries throughout the world to see if the manual calls for 20 or 30 weight. I would base the decision of that data. If me, regardless of 20 or 30 weight, I would pick either and run 5k OCI's on a DI turbo.
 
billt460 said:
It's not so much of it being a "thick vs. thin" argument, as it is people believing and stating that it's the "engineers" who are the one's recommending and pushing all these water thin oils in modern engines. It's not. It's all being driven by CAFE mileage standards the manufactures are all trying to meet, and / or exceed.

If it wasn't, these thin oils would be recommended across the board, regardless of what country the vehicle is being sold in. And you would see the term, "USE ONLY" printed everywhere. They're not and it's not. Get out of the United States, where there are no CAFE standards, and it's an all but a certainty they "recommend" a higher viscosity.

$$$$ is the motivation here, not oils recommended by "engineers" for long engine life.
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No, engineers determine this stuff. That is why engines that need thicker oil, get that spec'ed. Mazda for example recommends 20 weight in their non-turbo SA, and 30 weight in their turbo SA engines. Same company, different application, spec'ed for it. Now, engineers may design an engine to run thinner oil to comply with CAFE, but they spec the correct oil to protect it.

Viscosity and fluid strength don't always trend.
Cold flow characteristics matter. A lot. Especially with turbos, etc.

The Type R Civic 2.0 K20C1 was introduced years before it came to America, and every other market uses...0-20 oil, although the manual in other countries states you can use heavier oil IF the 0-20 is not available, it does not recommend it.
 
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Ws6 said:
No, engineers determine this stuff. That is why engines that need thicker oil, get that spec'ed. Mazda for example recommends 20 weight in their non-turbo SA, and 30 weight in their turbo SA engines. Same company, different application, spec'ed for it. Now, engineers may design an engine to run thinner oil to comply with CAFE, but they spec the correct oil to protect it.

Viscosity and fluid strength don't always trend.
Cold flow characteristics matter. A lot. Especially with turbos, etc.
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Cold "flow" is largely determined by the winter rating. Besides, flow is nearly irrelevant as has been explained here multiple times. It's about cranking and pumpability. Also there is no "fluid strength", it is about film thickness and MOFT.

The way it works is engineers work very hard to create ways for engines to tolerate thinner and thinner oils so that the manufacturer can obtain CAFE credits. Long gone are the years when engines were designed first. Now it comes the other way, learning how to design an engine so that it has "adequate" wear protection from lower HT/HS oils. There are no benefits to thinner oils except fuel economy, only drawbacks for which enormous amounts of money are spent to mitigate.
 
billt460 said:
Then why do they "spec" 0W-16 for Camry's sold here in the states, But "spec" oil as high as 15W-40 in Australia and Russia, in the same exact engine? That makes no sense.
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I do not have a Camry. I have a K20C4 engine, and in EVERY country this engine is sold in, in EVERY application...0-20 is what is recommended. From Civic Type R's sold in the UK, to Accords sold in America. In fact, this engine was not available in America for YEARS. Honda still spec'ed 0-20 oil in the countries it COULD be purchased in.
 
Honda builds more small engines than anyone else, and I trust their engineering.
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I didn't think so when we were very interested in getting a Honda CRV a few years ago. Fortunately found out about the oil dilution problem in their small engines before purchase and went with a Pilot instead.
 
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