Valvoline Extended Protection Full Synthetic vs. Mobil 1 Extended Performance

[Davejam]

The logic of deciding that Valvoline or QS, with their higher measured PPM of Mo have better anti-wear or lubrication properties than M1 with its ~ 60ppm of tri-nuclear Mo.

Chances are excellent that Valvoline is not using 300ppm of the tri-nuclear moly.

Again, I never said that Valvoline or QS have better properties than M1, but it is possible, no?

Regarding moly, here is the post specifically where it shows that a combination of trimer and dimer can outperform the trimer alone.
That thread in general has some useful information.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/best-moly-additives.344609/post-5854808

Yeah, I don't think it has 300ppm of the trimer, but it is possible, and if it had a combination that would be very interesting.

 

[Fauxchemist2009]

Yes this is the reason I didn't buy a Honda. To many engineered in issues! What do they do about it of course they push it into the customers lap by just saying this is the New Normal!

Still a better choice than a Korean brand.

 

[Imadentguy]

That's really something.

Is it?

 

[Imadentguy]

Still a better choice than a Korean brand.

Meh…. They all about the same now days

 

[buster]

Impossible for us to really know the answers to many of these questions.

 

[buster]

Again, I never said that Valvoline or QS have better properties than M1, but it is possible, no?

Regarding moly, here is the post specifically where it shows that a combination of trimer and dimer can outperform the trimer alone.
That thread in general has some useful information.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/best-moly-additives.344609/post-5854808

Yeah, I don't think it has 300ppm of the trimer, but it is possible, and if it had a combination that would be very interesting.

I wouldn't focus on any single additive.

 

[ltslimjim]

I'd use (and use) EP because of it being basically entirely PAO based. It's probably the most expensive to blend approved 0w-20 on the market.

I have run their EP HM in the past. Most recent MSDS from Feb 2022 doesn’t show PAO content. I wonder if it ever did or is this a change with API SP? I did not look for PAO content before as I assumed it was EP with different seal conditioners etc. to be a “HM” version of EP.

The EP from Jan 2022 still shows PAO.

I was thinking of Costco’s 6Qts for $29.99 deal coming up for their AFE but they are fully GTL base now.

Is there any opinion as to GTL base these days; for XOM in particular? AFE seemingly downgraded and now the EP HM isn’t using PAO either.

 

[OVERKILL]

I have run their EP HM in the past. Most recent MSDS from Feb 2022 doesn’t show PAO content. I wonder if it ever did or is this a change with API SP? I did not look for PAO content before as I assumed it was EP with different seal conditioners etc. to be a “HM” version of EP.

The EP from Jan 2022 still shows PAO.

I was thinking of Costco’s 6Qts for $29.99 deal coming up for their AFE but they are fully GTL base now.

Is there any opinion as to GTL base these days; for XOM in particular? AFE seemingly downgraded and now the EP HM isn’t using PAO either.

From what I recall HM never had high quantities of PAO in it, that was always AP 0w-20 and then EP 0w-20. IMHO, AP 0w-20 just became EP 0w-20 when the AP line was discontinued:

 

[RaRa]

I have run their EP HM in the past. Most recent MSDS from Feb 2022 doesn’t show PAO content. I wonder if it ever did or is this a change with API SP? I did not look for PAO content before as I assumed it was EP with different seal conditioners etc. to be a “HM” version of EP.

The EP from Jan 2022 still shows PAO.

I was thinking of Costco’s 6Qts for $29.99 deal coming up for their AFE but they are fully GTL base now.

Is there any opinion as to GTL base these days; for XOM in particular? AFE seemingly downgraded and now the EP HM isn’t using PAO either.

Mobil 1 high mileage less poa based on msds then there extended performance line . I guess maybe M1 used more group 5 AN base oil which conditions seals more HM ( need used less seal condition additive package). GTL is good for 7500 miles or less ( car mfg recommend intervals.)

 

[OilUzer]

I like M1 EP. I think it has better Noack as well. also they are not trying to hide behind "less than %15".

 

[PimTac]

I like M1 EP. I think it has better Noack as well. also they are not trying to hide behind "less than %15".

Their current PDS.


https://pdfgenerator-west.exxonmobi...wnload/NA-XX-MOBIL-1-EXTENDED-PERFORMANCE?p=1

 

[OilUzer]

Their current PDS.


https://pdfgenerator-west.exxonmobi...wnload/NA-XX-MOBIL-1-EXTENDED-PERFORMANCE?p=1

Noack numbers missing!

I think @OVERKILL knows the numbers. iirc %8.9 or maybe that's for M1 FS 0W-40.

 

[OilUzer]

The length of the OCI would be the deciding factor for me. If below 10,000 OCI, I would pick the Valvoline EP. It has a great add pack and that 300ppm of moly would keep it nice and quiet at that 20wt. The Mobil 1 EP 0w20 was super loud in my Toyota Tundra. Now, if if over 10,000, I would go with the Mobil 1 and just ignore the loudness LOL.

I am using the 5w30 Mobil 1 EP currently and it isn't loud like the 0w20 was...but this is a differnt engine as well, so...

Curious based on your experience, what was the "quietest" oil in your Tundra ? It's not a trick question, my Tundra is due for an oil change and I have 5 different brands of oil in the garage I was going to pick the most expensive of the bunch but some may argue that's shallow. lol
engine is not fussy and all my oils meet the requirements and I do short oci so it matters none.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Noack numbers missing!

Seems like most oil spec sheets don't show Noack anymore when they use to, or they simply say "Noack <15%" these days.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Why? At 1:28 in the video he is showing you the printed receipt from the Honda dealer, saying that it's all, "normal".

He also showed you the dipstick, and it's reading. What do you think he, or Honda making up?

Honda's answer is all bull..... If that's what you are referring to.

Yeah, Honda's answer is bull. They say it's "normal" ... obviously it's normal for an engine with a bad fuel dilution problem. And it's not going to "burn off" with time because they seem to fuel dilute faster than the burn-off rate for most people. Would probably have to take it on a 300+ mile trip to get the level to decrease some.

Here's the Honda YouTube video the shop order was referring to.

 

[OilUzer]

Because of this, I just dumped half a bottle of MoS2 into our CRV and the other half into the Odyssey.

no worries, next oci, you may find it on the bottom of your oil pan.

 

[OilUzer]

Re: Moly

Assuming you have the same "effective" amounts, meaning lets say 60 or 80ppm of tri-nuclear vs. 300ppm of other. I just picked those numbers (80 & 300) randomly for the sake of the argument.
Example:
Two $5 bills vs. a $10 bill both having the same purchasing power ...

I am told that higher amounts of old moly is better than lower amounts of tri-nuclear moly even though theoretically, they both have the same "purchasing power".

Seems like Japanese manufacturers also agree with that and like the old moly better! No?

 

[OVERKILL]

Re: Moly

Assuming you have the same "effective" amounts, meaning lets say 60 or 80ppm of tri-nuclear vs. 300ppm of other. I just picked those numbers (80 & 300) randomly for the sake of the argument.
Example:
Two $5 bills vs. a $10 bill both having the same purchasing power ...

I am told that higher amounts of old moly is better than lower amounts of tri-nuclear moly even though theoretically, they both have the same "purchasing power".

Seems like Japanese manufacturers also agree with that and like the old moly better! No?

I wouldn't say it's better, I'm not sure who conjured that up, it's different though, and they (different types of moly) may have different synergies with other additives, which brings us to the overall formulation.

I've shared these slides from Infineum before, but it sounds like they may be worth sharing again:

 

[billt460]

Yeah, Honda's answer is bull. They say it's "normal" ... obviously it's normal for an engine with a bad fuel dilution problem. And it's not going to "burn off" with time because they seem to fuel dilute faster than the burn-off rate for most people. Would probably have to take it on a 300+ mile trip to get the level to decrease some.

Here's the Honda YouTube video the shop order was referring to.

And all the while during that 300+ mile trip, you're pumping hot, thin, gasoline diluted oil through your engine. That's what's known as, "Free Return Trajectory"....... Right back to the dealer, after the pistons start swapping holes.

 

[ZeeOSix]

And all the while during that 300+ mile trip, you're pumping hot, thin, gasoline diluted oil through your engine. That's what's known as, "Free Return Trajectory"....... Right back to the dealer, after the pistons start swapping holes.

Honda wants you to run 0W-5 one way or the other, and never have to add oil between OCIs.