Value of a college degree

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It`s too bad that those college counselors don`t tell you that after you spend tens of thousands of dollars getting that liberal arts degree,that you`ll be qualified to be a cashier at the best retail store in town,never making the money during your lifetime to pay back those student loans.
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I see a lot of bellyaching in this. I dispise the argument that the womens' college grads numbers are lo because women earn less.

Thoughts?

This is not true. The highest paid group of people are married men. The second highest paid group is women, regardless of their marital status. The least paid group is unmarried men, regardless of race or skin color. I don't remember the source, but it was reliable.

(something off topic about false statistics about women drivers)
There is also another false belief that woman are safer drivers. The AAA insurance magazine wrote an article that said men are saver drivers. Men drive about 30% (I think) more miles than woman, and when mileage is taken into account men get into less accidents per mile driven than women.
 
It's not really complicated. The government gives massive subsidies (guaranteed loans) to get more people into college. This increases the amount of people that can get a loan. This increased demand and raises prices.

The banks can't loose because the loans are insured by uncle sam. The colleges win because they get lots of people going to their schools that wouldn't be able to if there wasn't a third party insuring the loans. Any time a third party is paying or insuring, prices ALWAYS rise.

The price of college is out pacing health insurance due to this self feeding circle. Since more people are in college, it makes it easier for employers to require a degree. Since employers now demand a degree...people HAVE to go to college...which in turn creates incentive for the colleges to become degree mills.

So what is happening is that the more government subsidizes college, the more people have to go into massive debt before they even get a job, and the worse education becomes.

The gov. is now fully in charge of student loans...which sets up the ultimate third party payer system.

More info:
http://townhall.com/columnists/ThomasSowell/2008/04/23/the_economics_of_college_part_iii
 
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The squids are running out of ink and I think you'll see a few empty campuses in the future. Whenever I hear an ad for a school of higher learning, I know that they're scrambling to fill classrooms.

With money drying up, I imagine a few MRS degrees will fall short of reaching their goals.

"I said oh no
William and Mary won't do"
grin2.gif
 
First biggest problem that ever hit the Oz tertiary education system was selling degrees to overseas "Full Fee Paying" students.

Immediately, the most lucrative part of the University's income stream had the expectation of pay the money, get the paper, not get educated.

Second problem was that they started using the Tertiary Entrance ranking (basically a number that rolls in all of your last 2 years of high school achievements into a number) to limit applications into certain fields (and encourage people into others), rather than the original "need to be able to jump a bar this high to have a reasonable chance of passing the degree".

Now we have people looking at their TER, and entering a field that will give them the highest pay for their HS academic achievement, and Universities that hand out degrees of a ridiculously low standard to keep the (oft non even English writing) Overseas Students flooding through the doors.

My Bro earns more than me, as a high school drop-out, become tradesman, foreman, estimator, General Manager...He worked hard, became a regular name in the industry, and had everyone after him.

There's way more paths than tertiary education to be successful.
 
"I'm never going back to my old school..." Nice memories with the Steely Dan quote, Gary.

Re; 'higher' education, my wife who spent many years getting to the OTR/L world is continually frustrated that her blue collar husband earns more than double her salary and bennies package. But she does have more job security than me.

Whatever you do, you just have to be willing to work harder than anyone else at it and you can make a lot of money.

We have many friends with expensive degrees that do not even work in their intended field!
 
Education is never a waste, but obviously some degrees don't afford as much of an opportunity for employment as others.

Yes Math and Science are crucial, and the U.S. is losing it's edge in this area, but that doesn't mean everyone should become an engineer.

Biology is a fantastic major. I was an economics major, bio minor. It helped me land a job with Bloomberg LP for 8 years. Considering I went to a state school (Rutgers), my loans were far lower than those that had to get their degrees at some small private school that offered zero benefit over a public school.

The last 20 years or so, our country has focused on producing and growing the financial services industry. We pump out a lot of useless MBA's and other financial engineering. We've been obsessed with bloating that industry and i don't know if that has paid off any to be honest. In many ways it's done more harm than good.
 
Oh, MAN........ Don't get me going on this subject.

No college degree, but told by sooo many I run circles over other Engineers!!

I've saved "hundreds of thousands of lives" with products I've developed. More than any Doctor anyone knows.

I prove it daily. Engineers are so responsible for most of the problems, rework and re-engineering than you can imagine.

Gotta run and go fix other Engineers situations now. Geez.

- The Bill Gates of Engineers.
 
Implantable devices that control and re-start the Heart. Also guidance systems for missiles, etc.

Sorry, it just really irks me that most people think the only way someone is smart is if they sit in a classroom & test out. Ugh.
 
The value of a degree

1) You can commit 4 years of your life to something/goal. Looked at very favorably by employers.

2) You make connections/social network that can take you very far career wise if you select a good school for that or have a great network.

3) It is something that is never lost or can be taken away.

4) opens opportunities
 
If I had to go through life with or without a degree.... I would definately want an education.

It took me 14 years to finish my bachelor's degree going to school part time at night and working 55 hours a week. Was it worth it ? You bet.

Quote:
You make connections/social network that can take you very far career wise if you select a good school for that or have a great network.

When I worked for GE my regional boss would always tell me that you have to network within the company and "hook your wagon" up to the person that could advance your career the most.
 
Originally Posted By: rjundi
The value of a degree

1) You can commit 4 years of your life to something/goal. Looked at very favorably by employers.

2) You make connections/social network that can take you very far career wise if you select a good school for that or have a great network.

3) It is something that is never lost or can be taken away.

4) opens opportunities

I agree with everything but #4.
 
Sorry, from what I've seen in 28 years worth of working with many 100's of college degreed engineers, I'll take my brain and what I have achieved and improved any day.
 
Originally Posted By: tpitcher

No college degree, but told by sooo many I run circles over other Engineers!!



Wow, a load of self-praise if Ive ever seen one.

And you proved my point by your comments. "classroom educated" means nothing. it is selling degrees.

But the beancounters define the quality of a product, not the engineers. The beancounters will pay the engineers' salaries to engineer things just well enough to work and eek out the last bit of profit. Not the engineers' fault...

Then someone who doesnt know any better comes in claiming they are the smartest person ever and fix all the issues... glad you can make a profit from it for sure, but it isnt particularly hidden that this is a common practice...

So what are your products/patents/credentials anyway?
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Couldnt agree more.

And what makes it sadder to see is when in advanced topical areas within science and engineering, we cannot get our own citizens to fill the rosters. HUGE numbers of Chinese and Indians get educated. Some stay, some leave. But why can't we fill these spots with our own? Because it isnt cool and the stupidity of TV/Media/Sports/Music solidifies this on soft young minds...


Being a "Chinese and Indian" educated in the country who stayed, I can tell you why. It has to do with parenting and the lack of main stream American perception that "college degree is useless" and "creativity and imagination are more important than traditional knowledge based education".

Science and Engineering are tough jobs for the amount of effort put in. Students who need to face the choice of going back to a 3rd world country making 1/2 the salary would definitely put up with lower salary, harsher working condition, fewer growth opportunities, than an American born student who can put the same effort into getting an MBA or law degree and make more with less effort.

Unfair? You bet, but that's more power to the employer.
 
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Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: tpitcher
No college degree, but told by sooo many I run circles over other Engineers!!

Wow, a load of self-praise if Ive ever seen one.

I have to concur....

I will only say I have worked with some great (software) engineers/architects and they did not have any degree. However they are so far and few between these days. A portion who tried school failed(math, theory) and actually respect those who at least finished their degrees. They have been eliminated from jobs in current market due to a simple filter (no degree). Also those at larger company's are pushed to get a degree if they want to move anywhere (manager/leadership). Again degree = opportunity.

I am sure TPitcher does well at his profession and hopefully enjoys it.

The days of no degree and good jobs where profession requires degree are so gone.
 
...and your education made you so smart that you actually posted specific information (that I will not disclose) that I had to notify the moderators to remove your post immediately??

Thanks a lot.

I am now off of here.
 
wow, lotsa reading, I have been fortunate to have a job/paycheck during the down turns in the last 15 years, my strategy was to be a loss leader,
now I have my own business and even hire a few people.

If you have a skill set that is usuable, you will have a job.

Having 2 degrees and not using any I can say degrees are worth their weight in diapers if don't have plan on how you will use em. some of the most talented people in san fran do not have any formal degrees. Their employers do not care as long as they produce.

now if you want to make some serious money, become a transplant surgeon, 400k- 600k plus bonus. Most of my transplant surgeons drive bentleys as daily driver.
 
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette

It took me 14 years to finish my bachelor's degree going to school part time at night and working 55 hours a week. Was it worth it ? You bet.


Did you have to transfer to different schools? The schools I know of have a limit to how long you can be enrolled for a Bachelors before they evict you. It's usually around 6-7 years
 
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