Using FRAM Ultra (XG11665) For 20K Miles with Four 5K OCs

Visually, the filter looks good and its integrity appears to be uncompromised. Without in-depth testing we do not know if the flow rates and filtration efficiency remain within acceptable parameters.

However, I want to point out that Fram only warranties their products for the OEM service interval. Here is a copy of the warranty document that is listed on their website:


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I also found this statement on their product page:
"Provides up to 20,000 miles/32,000 km of protection when used with an appropriate synthetic oil. Follow recommended change intervals as outlined in your owner’s manual."


To me, this suggests that Fram is confident in the 1/20K interval in applications where the OEM service interval is that long. So, the 1/20K interval may not be applicable to every application.
Fram would have a B*tch of a time defending a lawsuit where a good synthetic oil was run for 20k miles with this filter and there was a problem caused by the filter. But I think they are very confident it would handle it or they would not make the claim.

It is a bold claim and from what I've seen, they made a filter that can handle it, not just well, but very well. They aren't throwing a hail Mary for the sake of marketing. They aren't that stupid.

They are still struggling to shake off their old terrible reputation from years ago. They aren't going to risk that on a bold claim with a filter that might not be up to the job in common applications. I think that Pentastar would be a 300,000+ mile engine with the regimine @CarbonSteel is running. I think it is gutsy to try it but I also know he's not a risk taker like it appears on the surface. And I think Fram is less of a risk taker than him.

One more thing. I've torn the XG11665 apart after an OCI. It was the hardest media to tear apart I've ever seen. It took pliars and vice grips and LOTS of strength to tear it apart. No engine is going to get the job done. I think in terms of structural integrity it could go 40,000 miles and still look good.
 
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Mobil 1's oil filter warranty reads differently:

"MANN+HUMMEL Purolator Filters LLC (“MANN+HUMMEL”) provides this limited warranty to the original purchaser who use Mobil 1™ Extended Performance oil filter products manufactured or sold by MANN+HUMMEL (“Covered Products”). Covered Products are warrantied to be free from defects in material and workmanship for the duration of the original equipment recommended change interval.

This limited warranty is valid for:

  • For part numbers without "A" suffix (e.g., M1-110) - Up to 1 year from the date of installation or 15,000 miles/24,000 kilometers, whichever comes first, when combined with a fully synthetic motor oil designed for your vehicle’s intended oil change interval.
  • For part numbers with "A" suffix (e.g., M1-110A) - Up to 1 year from the date of installation or 20,000 miles, whichever comes first, when combined with a fully synthetic motor oil designed for your vehicle’s intended oil change interval.
This warranty covers properly installed filters used on approved applications."

In the Pentastar application, the Fram's construction is FAR stronger than the M1. The M1 holds up just fine but is much, much easier to tear apart. I've run both, mailnly because I have a stash of M1's I picked up at Walmart on clearance a couple years ago. They end in an "A" suffix for the Pentastar, btw. So if that filter can go the distance in that application, the Fram can do it with ease.
 
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It's been talked about a lot in many threads. Oil filters can lose efficiency as they load up with debris because the increased delta-p across the media can make already captured debris slough off and go down stream. It was even shown in this thread that all the tested filters exhibited that phenomenon. Read from th point where the link below pops into the thread.
I got a question, in my application it's a Fram Ultra cartridge filter, because of the housing already being of a decent size, wouldn't the "loading up" take longer than the usual can filters?
 
I got a question, in my application it's a Fram Ultra cartridge filter, because of the housing already being of a decent size, wouldn't the "loading up" take longer than the usual can filters?
All that can be said is with all things equal, a filter that is larger in size and having more media will take longer to load up.
 
The warranties for both companies are only for defects in material and workmanship. It’s as simple as that, there is nothing more there. Whether it is one year or according to the manual, it is about defects. If a filter clogs in ten miles, it isn’t a filter defect it’s an engine defect.
 
The warranties for both companies are only for defects in material and workmanship. It’s as simple as that, there is nothing more there. Whether it is one year or according to the manual, it is about defects. If a filter clogs in ten miles, it isn’t a filter defect it’s an engine defect.
It's also tied into the engine damage warranty due to product defects. If someone keeps an oil filter on the engine longer than the vehicle manufacturer recommends, and the filter fails and causes engine damage, then the warranty will not cover the engine damage. Pretty much all filter makers will have a similar warranty in that regard.
 
It's also tied into the engine damage warranty due to product defects. If someone keeps an oil filter on the engine longer than the vehicle manufacturer recommends, and the filter fails and causes engine damage, then the warranty will not cover the engine damage. Pretty much all filter makers will have a similar warranty in that regard.

The nice thing about a cartridge filter is that you can inspect it before it goes in. Heck, on the Pentastar, you can take it out any time and look at it and put it right back in there. I suspect you can do that with most of them. On my old Mercedes E430 you could do that, too.
 
It's also tied into the engine damage warranty due to product defects. If someone keeps an oil filter on the engine longer than the vehicle manufacturer recommends, and the filter fails and causes engine damage, then the warranty will not cover the engine damage. Pretty much all filter makers will have a similar warranty in that regard.
It’s in there in my post, warranty one year or manuf. recommendation. How would one know if a filter is defective anyway, very few cases. If you cut it open, no warranty apparently so pretty much the warranty is no warranty. The lawyers make sure of that as much as they can and still make it sound like there is a warranty.
 
It’s in there in my post, warranty one year or manuf. recommendation. How would one know if a filter is defective anyway, very few cases. If you cut it open, no warranty apparently so pretty much the warranty is no warranty. The lawyers make sure of that as much as they can and still make it sound like there is a warranty.
Certainly, running a filter for the advertised time is not for everyone. I have done it multiple times on different vehicles with Ultras with zero issues and am far past the hand-wringing that sometimes happens here and apparently always happens on the Jeep forums (@IndyFan?). For most (not saying this is you), it is easier and has a better emotional feel to buy a filter or oil that is rated for "X" and run it for 1/3 or 1/4 of that time in the thought that somehow more protection was offered because it had such a rating but was used for far less. Of course, nothing could be further from the truth.

Long drain oils and filters do nothing better in the short term (eh, @dnewton3?), they shine on the back end of the equation by holding TBN longer or having higher dirt holding capacity. While I get the whole warranty thing, you can bet your posterior that if an engine fails, you are going to jump through more hoops imaginable with or without documentation. From my perspective, given the media construction and the mesh backing I am not concerned in the slightest at the filter imploding or breaking apart and doing what everyone loves to say will happen and that is clog the oil galleries and destroy the engine. More likely, the filter would go into bypass, but on synthetic media and a filter as long as the XG11665, it is going to take a lot of particulates to clog it. My engine has 40K miles on it with an average OCI of 4K (given all of the early OCs to dump wear metals), it is just not possible for it to be dirty enough to clog the filter and in addtion, I am running a catch can which prevents oil from being reintroduced into the engine and burned thereby creating more by-products.

Again, this is not for everyone and apparently not for the faint of heart, but I am not concerned at all. If I were doing 20K OCIs, I may have more concerns, but then again, I am consistently monitoring the health of the oil and would do the same on long OCIs, so it is not guesswork that has me making these decisions.
 
I've seen plenty of cartridge filters run over 14k on Euro cars with no physical compromise, so 20k wouldn't bother me in your application.

The only failed cartridge I've seen has been a Fram Ultra. However it was the older style with red/pink media and not the updated style made in Korea.
 
It’s in there in my post, warranty one year or manuf. recommendation. How would one know if a filter is defective anyway, very few cases. If you cut it open, no warranty apparently so pretty much the warranty is no warranty. The lawyers make sure of that as much as they can and still make it sound like there is a warranty.
Your post only mentions defects of the product, so just wanted to ad that it ties into the warranty of any possible engine damage caused by a defect. No company is going to cover engine damage if the filter is ran longer than what the warranty on the filter covers, or if a filter is used that is not specified by the manufacturer.

You could have defects in the product, and some will be seen and others won't. There have been a few members who had a leak on the base crimp seal and the filter was sent in and they got two new filters back. Bottom line is if there is a suspected failure in the filter, never cut it open. Have it sent back to the manufacturer so they can analyze it.
 
I have been running FRAM Ultra XG11665 filters for 20K mile FCIs with 4-5K mile OCIs using Rotella Gas Truck. The oil is typically down to around 2.x TBN when I change it and though I know that TBN is not linear, 5K is easy and all of the RGT was bought on clearance for $1-$2 per quart.

With that in mind, what concerns are there to run this filter for 20K miles? The Jeep community lost their minds over it despite the fact I have solid data behind my decision. One of the main reasons I do it is because in FCAs infinite wisdom (unlike MB) they designed the oil filter housing from plastic and crimped it onto an aluminum oil cooler which subsequently cracks and develops an oil leak. Though I am extra careful with the torque, the less times I loosen/tighten the better.

Those who know me remember that I did this with my 2010 FX4 after going 15-17K on an oil change and I had zero issues. Just curious as to whether there have been any recent experiences with FRAM Ultras where I should (re)consider my FCI. Note the twist in the filter is completely normal for FCA 3.6L Pentastar engines so that is not a concern.

TIA!


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"Oh, the humanity!" ☹️😱
 
My only concern is in the unlikely event where a filter media tears... Its going to run some serious miles with little to no filtration. Not saying the filter media or capacity isnt up to the task of protecting for 20,000 miles but its some cheap insurance.
Though the argument could be made that any filter could potentially tear, Im assuming that by changing the filter often that im preventing a chance it could tear due to extended use.
This post sounds like Shel_B. Going around and around with no real point.
 
My only concern is in the unlikely event where a filter media tears... Its going to run some serious miles with little to no filtration. Not saying the filter media or capacity isnt up to the task of protecting for 20,000 miles but its some cheap insurance.
Though the argument could be made that any filter could potentially tear, Im assuming that by changing the filter often that im preventing a chance it could tear due to extended use.
This post sounds like Shel_B. Going around and around with no real point.
Given that the media is meshed backed and while I am not saying that it cannot tear, the odds are long indeed that it would/could. This would be an entirely different discussion if this was a cellulose or non-backed media filter.
 
Given that the media is meshed backed and while I am not saying that it cannot tear, the odds are long indeed that it would/could. This would be an entirely different discussion if this was a cellulose or non-backed media filter.
I don't think there is a mass produced engine owned by anyone on this board that could tear that media, unless there was a manufacturing or material defect. Even if they ran it for 30k miles.
 
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I don't think there is a mass produced engine owned by anyone on this board that could tear that media, unless there was a manufacturing or material defect. Even if they ran it for 30k miles.
Theoretically no oil filter should tear the media if it's designed correctly and able to take the delta-p across the media all day long while operating in bypass.
 
Theoretically no oil filter should tear the media if it's designed correctly and able to take the delta-p across the media all day long while operating in bypass.
True. But the media in this one is particularly strong. Stronger than any cartridge media I've torn before, by a wide margin. I've torn some that I would never push further than 10k. That's pretty subjective, I know, but the contrast I saw was stark.
 
Its your vehicle. I would not try to make an oil filter go that long. But I dont have any science on it either. Do what you want.

It would be more interesting to read about the results if you went 50 k on oil and filter . So maybe consider if the oil needs to be changed at all.
 
Its your vehicle. I would not try to make an oil filter go that long. But I dont have any science on it either. Do what you want.

It would be more interesting to read about the results if you went 50 k on oil and filter . So maybe consider if the oil needs to be changed at all.
50K and not change the oil at all? Not sure if you are joking/being sarcastic, but that would be far less than intelligent to run a filter for more than 2.5x its rating and the Rotella Gas Truck oil is not a long drain oil. In fact, without bypass filtration, there is no PCMO that is going to last 50K.

But why don't you test it and report back?
 
Given that the media is meshed backed and while I am not saying that it cannot tear, the odds are long indeed that it would/could. This would be an entirely different discussion if this was a cellulose or non-backed media filter.
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Even then, the chances of having "100% of all of the oil" flowing through that one small tear is 0%

A single tear in one pleat is really NOT as big of a deal as some people like to think it would be.

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