Using FRAM Ultra (XG11665) For 20K Miles with Four 5K OCs

[CarbonSteel]

I have been running FRAM Ultra XG11665 filters for 20K mile FCIs with 4-5K mile OCIs using Rotella Gas Truck. The oil is typically down to around 2.x TBN when I change it and though I know that TBN is not linear, 5K is easy and all of the RGT was bought on clearance for $1-$2 per quart.

With that in mind, what concerns are there to run this filter for 20K miles? The Jeep community lost their minds over it despite the fact I have solid data behind my decision. One of the main reasons I do it is because in FCAs infinite wisdom (unlike MB) they designed the oil filter housing from plastic and crimped it onto an aluminum oil cooler which subsequently cracks and develops an oil leak. Though I am extra careful with the torque, the less times I loosen/tighten the better.

Those who know me remember that I did this with my 2010 FX4 after going 15-17K on an oil change and I had zero issues. Just curious as to whether there have been any recent experiences with FRAM Ultras where I should (re)consider my FCI. Note the twist in the filter is completely normal for FCA 3.6L Pentastar engines so that is not a concern.

TIA!

 

[Zee09]

Your info seems sound and you have the data and your vehicle seems happy so why not?

 

[BISCUT]

If you are comfortable, that is what matters. Please keep us up to date on the results.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I have been running FRAM Ultra XG11665 filters for 20K mile FCIs with 4-5K mile OCIs using Rotella Gas Truck.

If your engine is nice and clean inside then the Ultra should be fine up to 20K miles of use. If you're a bit apprehensive, then cut it back to 15-16K on the filter with the 4-5K OCIs.

 

[Sayjac]

Looks ok, as long as you're satisfied with the results all that matters. Your multiple OCI reasoning seems logical. Just as a point of information, I have seen other brands including the Mopar OEM take a little flogging here occasionally for the post use wave /twist appearance. That said, as noted it is quite a long cartridge application so not very surprising.

Also this application is not and hasn't been for some time wire backed or same synthetic media the OG spin on Ultra had. It's a white synthetic with nylon/polyester type backing, similar to Boss/XP/Plat.

Thanks for pics.

 

[The Critic]

Visually, the filter looks good and its integrity appears to be uncompromised. Without in-depth testing we do not know if the flow rates and filtration efficiency remain within acceptable parameters.

However, I want to point out that Fram only warranties their products for the OEM service interval. Here is a copy of the warranty document that is listed on their website:

https://www.fram.com/media/1728/fram-limited-warranty.pdf

I also found this statement on their product page:
"Provides up to 20,000 miles/32,000 km of protection when used with an appropriate synthetic oil. Follow recommended change intervals as outlined in your owner’s manual."

FRAM Ultra Synthetic® Oil Filter | 20,000 Miles of Protection | FRAM

Want the best performance from your new engine or the best protection for your older vehicle? There’s no better choice than ULTRA SYNTHETIC® oil filters.

www.fram.com

To me, this suggests that Fram is confident in the 1/20K interval in applications where the OEM service interval is that long. So, the 1/20K interval may not be applicable to every application.

 

[SammyChevelleTypeS3]

Well I outsmarted myself again. I ordered a six pack of OEM "official" Honda Motor Corp oil filters and paid about $2 each more than Frams that I use from time to time. I got them in mail. They look great and really made well. Matter of fact they looked identical to the new fram in my shop. So I looked on internet (dummy, shoulda looked before) and find that Fram is making the fiilters for Honda. Oh well, I got a good supply of filters and just paid extra for the pretty blue official Honda MC OEM Filter labels.

 

[Zee09]

Visually, the filter looks good. Its integrity appears to be uncompromised. Without in-depth testing we do not know if the flow-rates and filtration efficiency remain within acceptable parameters.

However, I also want to point out that Fram only warranties their products for the OEM service interval. Here is a copy of the warranty document that is listed on their website:

https://www.fram.com/media/1728/fram-limited-warranty.pdf

View attachment 81085

I also found this statement on their product page:
"Provides up to 20,000 miles/32,000 km of protection when used with an appropriate synthetic oil. Follow recommended change intervals as outlined in your owner’s manual."

FRAM Ultra Synthetic® Oil Filter | 20,000 Miles of Protection | FRAM

Want the best performance from your new engine or the best protection for your older vehicle? There’s no better choice than ULTRA SYNTHETIC® oil filters.

www.fram.com

To me, this suggests that Fram is confident in the 1/20K interval in applications where the OEM service interval is that long. So, the 1/20K interval may not be applicable to every application.

Ain't that just the required legal ease? Nothing negative on your research of course.

 

[The Critic]

Ain't that just the required legal ease? Nothing negative on your research of course.

Mobil 1's oil filter warranty reads differently:

"MANN+HUMMEL Purolator Filters LLC (“MANN+HUMMEL”) provides this limited warranty to the original purchaser who use Mobil 1™ Extended Performance oil filter products manufactured or sold by MANN+HUMMEL (“Covered Products”). Covered Products are warrantied to be free from defects in material and workmanship for the duration of the original equipment recommended change interval.

This limited warranty is valid for:

• For part numbers without "A" suffix (e.g., M1-110) - Up to 1 year from the date of installation or 15,000 miles/24,000 kilometers, whichever comes first, when combined with a fully synthetic motor oil designed for your vehicle’s intended oil change interval.
• For part numbers with "A" suffix (e.g., M1-110A) - Up to 1 year from the date of installation or 20,000 miles, whichever comes first, when combined with a fully synthetic motor oil designed for your vehicle’s intended oil change interval.

This warranty covers properly installed filters used on approved applications."

Mobil 1™ Extended Performance Oil Filter limited warranty | Mobil™ Motor Oils

Mobil 1™ Extended Performance oil filters, manufactured by Champions Laboratories, Inc., are warranted to be free from defects in material and workmanship.

www.mobil.com

 

[WobblyElvis]

One of the main reasons I do it is because in FCAs infinite wisdom (unlike MB) they designed the oil filter housing from plastic and crimped it onto an aluminum oil cooler which subsequently cracks and develops an oil leak.

You can gain more information about that filter buy cutting the media away from the frame and stretching it out while holding it up to the light. Look for holes in the material and debris down in the pleats.

The problem with the filter housing and combined cooler has been addressed by Dorman. This replacement part might be just what you are looking for.

Dorman Products - PA900389

Steering Pitman Arm

www.dormanproducts.com

 

[AKhan87]

need to check for any tears in the media

Without in-depth testing we do not know if the flow rates and filtration efficiency remain within acceptable parameters.

how exactly will the filtering efficiency reduce if there are no tears?

I have no idea or understanding about how the flow rates would change from the whole 20k use interval without (any tears or a filter that is at its' maximum capacity) if someone could explain that I would appreciate it.

 

[CarbonSteel]

You can gain more information about that filter buy cutting the media away from the frame and stretching it out while holding it up to the light. Look for holes in the material and debris down in the pleats.

The problem with the filter housing and combined cooler has been addressed by Dorman. This replacement part might be just what you are looking for.

Dorman Products - PA900389

Steering Pitman Arm

www.dormanproducts.com

I think that cooler is for 2018 and earlier 3.6L (unless something has changed).

 

[ZeeOSix]

how exactly will the filtering efficiency reduce if there are no tears?

I have no idea or understanding about how the flow rates would change from the whole 20k use interval without (any tears or a filter that is at its' maximum capacity) if someone could explain that I would appreciate it.

It's been talked about a lot in many threads. Oil filters can lose efficiency as they load up with debris because the increased delta-p across the media can make already captured debris slough off and go down stream. It was even shown in this thread that all the tested filters exhibited that phenomenon. Read from th point where the link below pops into the thread.

Would you all like to see ISO 4548-12 Oil Filter Lab Testing Comparison, Efficiency & Capacity, Pressure vs Flow, Bubble Point, and Burst?

I have this as a “watched” thread, so if you do happen to start a new one, could you put a note or link in this one to direct followers to the new thread? Thanks!! Yes, no problem I can do that.

bobistheoilguy.com

The flow rate vs engine RPM won't change because of the positive displacement oil pump. The flow through a filter with tears won't even change because of the positive displacement oil pump.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Mobil 1's oil filter warranty reads differently:

"MANN+HUMMEL Purolator Filters LLC (“MANN+HUMMEL”) provides this limited warranty to the original purchaser who use Mobil 1™ Extended Performance oil filter products manufactured or sold by MANN+HUMMEL (“Covered Products”). Covered Products are warrantied to be free from defects in material and workmanship for the duration of the original equipment recommended change interval.

This limited warranty is valid for:

• For part numbers without "A" suffix (e.g., M1-110) - Up to 1 year from the date of installation or 15,000 miles/24,000 kilometers, whichever comes first, when combined with a fully synthetic motor oil designed for your vehicle’s intended oil change interval.
• For part numbers with "A" suffix (e.g., M1-110A) - Up to 1 year from the date of installation or 20,000 miles, whichever comes first, when combined with a fully synthetic motor oil designed for your vehicle’s intended oil change interval.

This warranty covers properly installed filters used on approved applications."

Mobil 1™ Extended Performance Oil Filter limited warranty | Mobil™ Motor Oils

Mobil 1™ Extended Performance oil filters, manufactured by Champions Laboratories, Inc., are warranted to be free from defects in material and workmanship.

www.mobil.com

Mobil's warranty really isn't any different. Key on on the words "up to 1 year or 20K miles, whichever one comes first" and "designed for your vehicles intended oil change interval".

So if the vehicle manufactuer says change the oil and filter at 5K miles, and you keep the Mobil 1 filter on for 6K miles (but under a year) then the warranty is void. Or if the filter was kept on for over a year regardless of miles, then the warranty would be void. The words "vehicles intended oil change interval" is basically saying to follow the vehicle recommended service schedule - just like Fram (and all other filter makers) are saying.

 

[The Critic]

Mobil's warranty really isn't any different. Key on on the words "up to 1 year or 20K miles, whichever one comes first" and "designed for your vehicles intended oil change interval".

So if the vehicle manufactuer says change the oil and filter at 5K miles, and you keep the Mobil 1 filter on for 6K miles (but under a year) then the warranty is void. Or if the filter was kept on for over a year regardless of miles, then the warranty would be void. The words "vehicles intended oil change interval" is basically saying to follow the vehicle recommended service schedule - just like Fram (and all other filter makers) are saying.

I think that is subject to the interpretation and definition of "your vehicles intended service interval."

Fram is very explicit in stating "original equipment recommended change interval," which is an industry-accepted term for the OEM recommended interval. Perhaps an e-mail to Mobil to clarify their position may be worthwhile.

 

[DGXR]

I say you're fine, do it. All oil filters have a margin of safety, meaning they don't immediately stop functioning once arrived at the rated service life. (Yes the media does load up over the service life but this is true of all filters.) Plus I'd imagine your engine has received regular service and is pretty clean inside. Also, the 20k mile rating on the FU filters is for a single service interval all on the same batch of oil... however you are removing dirty oil and adding clean oil 3x during this 20k mile interval. No worries.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I think that is subject to the interpretation and definition of "your vehicles intended service interval."

Fram is very explicit in stating "original equipment recommended change interval," which is an industry-accepted term for the OEM recommended interval. Perhaps an e-mail to Mobil to clarify their position may be worthwhile.

The only way I could take that is they mean the intended (ie, recommended) service interval given by the vehicle manufacturer. What else could it really mean? Give them a call and find out ... bet that's what they will say.

"Up to 1 year from the date of installation or 20,000 miles"

^^^ Both the 1 year and 20K are "up to". So if either one can be void by the "your vehicles intended service interval".

 

[Sayjac]

Fram filter warranty is no different than Purolator branded or Wix branded or most/all others. The filter warranty covers use over the vehicle manufacturers recommended fci. First time seeing the M1 warranty but it reads like a lot of CYA with mention of the use of 'synthetic oil'. lol Safe to say, M1 'like all the others', is 'definitely" covered for the vehicle manufacturer's recommended fci. Beyond that, reads like you're at the mercy of what M&H might determine in the event of a failure.

So, the OP here was 'technically' out of the filter warranty, as is anyone here who ever ran a filter like the Ultra more than one oci where the vehicle manufacturer only recommends one oci. If you own Honda, then running it twice, you would be covered. Imo all the hub bub about warranty nothing new and much ado about nothing. Now, if one has a new vehicle under warranty then perhaps taking that into consideration, may be worth considering. All that said, good luck collecting on any filter warranty even if run at the vehicle recommended fci.

As for topic cartridge, personally if it was mine and looking at the post use cartridge, I would have zero concern about flow or any "significant" efficiency loss. In other words, topic use gets a from me.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

Get a Wix XP/Napa Platinum. They recently changed it to be more like the Fram Ultra/Purolator Boss, but if you're lucky, you can find a NOS XP that has a metal wire backing that should be stronger

 

[CarbonSteel]

Get a Wix XP/Napa Platinum. They recently changed it to be more like the Fram Ultra/Purolator Boss, but if you're lucky, you can find a NOS XP that has a metal wire backing that should be stronger

The efficiency of the WIX XP is terrible compared to the Ultra (unless something has changed in the past few years). I quit tracking WIX some years ago when the efficiency was "X" @ 40um.

@IndyFan tore an Ultra like mine apart a while back and had difficulty pulling it apart. It seems to be plenty stout.