MJ 12 documents were leaked out. Those holding them, did not release them for a few years, attempting to determine it they were authentic, or disinformation to discredit them.
The documents authenticity have been debated and no one knows.
USAF Vet David Grusch Claims
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MJ 12 documents were leaked out. Those holding them, did not release them for a few years, attempting to determine it they were authentic, or disinformation to discredit them.
The documents authenticity have been debated and no one knows.
I kinda think we do know and there is no merit to claims of those from other systems having visited us.
One thing people often dismiss. It is possible that an advanced civilization sent unoccupied, robotic or passive craft our way. Scattershot into the galaxy without guidance, gravity would do the rest.
I sometimes think mankind should do this. That is, send outbound durable, long lasting metallic vehicles, built with obvious signs of intelligence, that could survive reentry and be located. Like a man made meteor that might find it's way via sheer luck, to another inhabited world. No internal mechanical parts, just information.
I sometimes think mankind should do this. That is, send outbound durable, long lasting metallic vehicles, built with obvious signs of intelligence, that could survive reentry and be located. Like a man made meteor that might find it's way via sheer luck, to another inhabited world. No internal mechanical parts, just information.
We send peeps to life terms in prison based on eyewitness testimony, yet if those same witnesses claimed to see a Bigfoot or a Grey...we say they are crazy.
How is it that modern humans have "evolved" here and reached a population of 9 billion, when your offspring are essentially tasty morsels for the first year of their lives, at our fastest, we can't outrun the things that want to eat us, the Sun will kill us if we are out in it too long, Earth's gravity breaks down our bone structure and we don't see worth crap at night...the exact time that everything we want to eat, or everything that wants to eat us sees really well.
How is it that modern humans have "evolved" here and reached a population of 9 billion, when your offspring are essentially tasty morsels for the first year of their lives, at our fastest, we can't outrun the things that want to eat us, the Sun will kill us if we are out in it too long, Earth's gravity breaks down our bone structure and we don't see worth crap at night...the exact time that everything we want to eat, or everything that wants to eat us sees really well.
It's as if we are living in some type of a control mechanism of some sort, that involves synchronicity, and other weirdness we have no explanation for.
Synchronicities are fascinating.
For the UFO crowd, these are exciting times. It's never had this much serious attention on the subject on this scale before. Maybe if more scientists are looking at it, without ridicule, we'll get to the bottom of it.
In years past, professional scientists wouldn't touch this topic with a ten-foot pole. It would ruin their careers and credibility.
I'm taking a break from the topic until something truly extraordinary is revealed.
Synchronicities are fascinating.
For the UFO crowd, these are exciting times. It's never had this much serious attention on the subject on this scale before. Maybe if more scientists are looking at it, without ridicule, we'll get to the bottom of it.
In years past, professional scientists wouldn't touch this topic with a ten-foot pole. It would ruin their careers and credibility.
I'm taking a break from the topic until something truly extraordinary is revealed.
Whether Mr. Grusch's claims are legit or he's just the latest trying to monopolize on this topic, I have no idea. Until he presents some evidence, his hearsay is noted but not particularly weighty. I find it ODD that he can talk about classified information but cannot give specifics or documents or pictures... I find Bob Lazar highly credible on this topic, however. He has given consistent information for decades, and revealed things then not known to the public but which did come true, such as Area S4 and the element 115. They essentially "erased" much of Lazar's past.
I do strongly believe there definitely ARE government programs that possess alien crafts and creatures and have for decades going back to at least the WWII era. I do strongly believe alien crafts/ETs exist, have visited us, and some have crashed and been retrieved. There are simply too many eye-witnesses to discount. While 99% might be nonsense or hoaxes, 1% or even a fraction of 1% is all that matters for this to be real. We have credible unexplainable photos and videos going back decades now, in addition to credible eye witnesses by the thousands or more. Pilots, military, police, all having generally sworn oaths and keen eyesight and observation skills. Abductees with nothing to gain by sharing their credible stories, and so forth.
I've spoken about my eye witness experiences on other forums. In brief, around the mid-late 1980s when I was in my teens. Out late at night with 3 friends we were in the woods, and observed for about 15 minutes a large triangular translucent triangle craft, with white lights on each corner, hovering over the tree line about a mile away. It ejected a red orb from the belly. Then in traveled in our direction at a speed too slow for an airplane to retain lift, and there was no noise, no rotors or other obvious propulsion systems. It went directly over our heads, it was huge, perhaps a 100 yards overhead, and it was almost invisible. I closed my eyes in fear, and we all then ran home. It was and remains unexplainable but I have heard/read of many similar accounts of similar objects. This really happened, I'd swear on a stack of Bibles.
Considering we're still flying around in rocket propelled visible loud jets that cannot really "hover" or do other odd maneuvers, our best being of this technology, such human technology still does not apparently exist and certainly didn't for humans in the 1980s. Our "best" technology of the era was the infancy of computers, most things were still analogue, and it was the infancy of the Stealth Bomber technology which cannot hover, cannot fly silently, and cannot crawl across the sky, and is not almost invisible.
As to those that disbelieve it because WE don't currently understand the technology, that's a untenable position to take. Consider the technology we employ today, most people don't even know how it works and people of just 200 years ago, would view it as almost magical. Communications, space travel, flight, X-rays, lasers, digital computing, digital streaming, music/photos/media, vehicles, nuclear power, AI, robotics, medical science, and so forth. That's merely a couple of centuries worth of advances. Consider what humans can create in the next 1,000 years, folks alive today would struggle to understand it. Imagine a intelligent life form with a million year, heck even a 50,000 year, head start and what they could have produced. The known galaxies are so large entire intelligent species could have born, lived, and died out many times over and over. They could have produced incredible things, space travel, sent robotics and drones out to explore the planets and solar systems, etc. thousands of years ago. We have detected radio signals in deep space.
As to the theories on travel, there are many plausible ones including worm holes, gravitational control in ships, etc.
These sightings of advanced aircraft go back not only decades but centuries. As to the denial of it based on the fact they are so advanced they should not crash, that's equally silly. Our most advanced equipment fails, regularly. Our fighter jets crash, our computers fail, there is pilot error as well. Out of millions of probably visits, a small % are bound to crash. But just taking the credible observations from the 1900s forward, supported by photographs and credible witnesses, I'm fully convinced and expect a "big reveal" in my lifetime.
As someone pointed out above, our legal system hinges on credible eyewitness testimony. I've observed a UFO myself, and I have seen videos that are unexplainable, many supported by individuals of the highest caliber of integrity and observation skills who would have the information to assess and have no explanation as to what they saw. I'm thinking of the Naval pilots from the Nimitz and similar, along with dozens of other famous UFO sightings from pilots, military personnel, law enforcement, etc.
I do strongly believe there definitely ARE government programs that possess alien crafts and creatures and have for decades going back to at least the WWII era. I do strongly believe alien crafts/ETs exist, have visited us, and some have crashed and been retrieved. There are simply too many eye-witnesses to discount. While 99% might be nonsense or hoaxes, 1% or even a fraction of 1% is all that matters for this to be real. We have credible unexplainable photos and videos going back decades now, in addition to credible eye witnesses by the thousands or more. Pilots, military, police, all having generally sworn oaths and keen eyesight and observation skills. Abductees with nothing to gain by sharing their credible stories, and so forth.
I've spoken about my eye witness experiences on other forums. In brief, around the mid-late 1980s when I was in my teens. Out late at night with 3 friends we were in the woods, and observed for about 15 minutes a large triangular translucent triangle craft, with white lights on each corner, hovering over the tree line about a mile away. It ejected a red orb from the belly. Then in traveled in our direction at a speed too slow for an airplane to retain lift, and there was no noise, no rotors or other obvious propulsion systems. It went directly over our heads, it was huge, perhaps a 100 yards overhead, and it was almost invisible. I closed my eyes in fear, and we all then ran home. It was and remains unexplainable but I have heard/read of many similar accounts of similar objects. This really happened, I'd swear on a stack of Bibles.
Considering we're still flying around in rocket propelled visible loud jets that cannot really "hover" or do other odd maneuvers, our best being of this technology, such human technology still does not apparently exist and certainly didn't for humans in the 1980s. Our "best" technology of the era was the infancy of computers, most things were still analogue, and it was the infancy of the Stealth Bomber technology which cannot hover, cannot fly silently, and cannot crawl across the sky, and is not almost invisible.
As to those that disbelieve it because WE don't currently understand the technology, that's a untenable position to take. Consider the technology we employ today, most people don't even know how it works and people of just 200 years ago, would view it as almost magical. Communications, space travel, flight, X-rays, lasers, digital computing, digital streaming, music/photos/media, vehicles, nuclear power, AI, robotics, medical science, and so forth. That's merely a couple of centuries worth of advances. Consider what humans can create in the next 1,000 years, folks alive today would struggle to understand it. Imagine a intelligent life form with a million year, heck even a 50,000 year, head start and what they could have produced. The known galaxies are so large entire intelligent species could have born, lived, and died out many times over and over. They could have produced incredible things, space travel, sent robotics and drones out to explore the planets and solar systems, etc. thousands of years ago. We have detected radio signals in deep space.
As to the theories on travel, there are many plausible ones including worm holes, gravitational control in ships, etc.
These sightings of advanced aircraft go back not only decades but centuries. As to the denial of it based on the fact they are so advanced they should not crash, that's equally silly. Our most advanced equipment fails, regularly. Our fighter jets crash, our computers fail, there is pilot error as well. Out of millions of probably visits, a small % are bound to crash. But just taking the credible observations from the 1900s forward, supported by photographs and credible witnesses, I'm fully convinced and expect a "big reveal" in my lifetime.
As someone pointed out above, our legal system hinges on credible eyewitness testimony. I've observed a UFO myself, and I have seen videos that are unexplainable, many supported by individuals of the highest caliber of integrity and observation skills who would have the information to assess and have no explanation as to what they saw. I'm thinking of the Naval pilots from the Nimitz and similar, along with dozens of other famous UFO sightings from pilots, military personnel, law enforcement, etc.
I would say the distinction would be not to send 2 probes, but to send thousands of much smaller projectile like craft outward. Possibly sub 10 pound, radar-reflective craft, capable of surviving reentry, with only the smallest drive for accurate manuvering on the outbound leg. Sent in timed groupings of 10 or more, towards specific targets, and each set of groupings sent in all practical directions.
Given enough in the way of gravity assist, they could find our neighboring stars in thousands of years.
If we can do this now, other civilizations (if they exist) may have already done so.
Why would such an advanced civilization allow themselves and it's technology to be captured? Eye witnesses are fine, but it doesn't automatically mean aliens. Statistically speaking it's a much, much higher chance they saw our own tech, not aliens.
Same as above, you don't know what you saw, therefore you cannot say it was alien. It is likely extremely advanced tech of our own. The comparison to the technology available to the general public holds absolutely no merit IMO. For example, did you know back then we had aircraft invisible to the radar?
You don't need to understand the technology to recognize it. Ancient man is always portrayed as stupid yet they built monuments that we would have a hard time replicating with all the advanced tech we have to day. We probably wouldn't be able to build a pyramid, for example, because we have no idea how it was made and what's inside it's structure aside from few corridors.
Time is also a poor argument, because a civilization would have to endure all sorts of natural cataclysm plus internal conflicts. Our own history proves it. Those aliens would have to live in one huge bubble for millennia without conflicts, famine, natural disasters etc. in order to focus on advancing their technology.
Ah, so now we are comparing super, duper advanced tech that can travel wormholes, warp drives, bend space and time to our own tech that still breaks.
And still, lets say mistakes happen, sure, why would they allow their tech to be captured by us, primitive monkeys? It would be a child's play to take everything away from us. I'm sure that no matter their advancements, such a space fairing ship would be a considerable asset not easily given up, don't you think?
Imagining all these fantastic things is fine, but it's still just one's imagination.
Also, I know that many also point out ancient hieroglyphs, writings, statues etc. pointing to visitors from outer space. But consider this, apparently ancient men saw this creatures very often. Often enough to write about them and make all sorts of statues from stone. How come they disappeared now and stay in the shadows?
A superior species doesn't need to hide, give up its tech in an accident and just fly around abducting people and cows.
A superior species doesn't need to hide, give up its tech in an accident and just fly around abducting people and cows.
The starting point is that I apply logic, reason, understanding of history and technology.
Also, your position is internally inconsistent. If it's such secretive advanced tech, why are we flying it around in rural or heavily populated areas where people will see it? Would that not give the other side great opportunity to copy it, or opportunity for it to crash? It makes no sense to have this secret tech and fly it around over Topeka or Phoenix or in other nations like Mexico, etc. These sightings occur over the world.
This and similar such objects have been seen by millions of humans over decades and even centuries, far before man invented flight to be specific. Columbus documented in his journal a UFO sighting. There are religious paintings with chariots in the skies from Biblical times.
The reality is that for thousands of years, these advanced creatures have visited to study humans and earth.
So for how long have we had this fantastic tech and not used it to any significant advantage? How do you explain all the photos and videos, the abduction evidence of which many stories are very credible, etc.?
What is your explanation? There are a finite number of possible options.
1. US technology. This fails to answer it b/c it's been observed for decades and centuries yet we are not employing it, it befuddles are most trained fighter pilots and engineers who speak about the tech, and it's seen around the world not limited to "safe" US airspace IOW where it could be captured. To believe this, you'd have to believe we've had crazy advanced anti-gravity flying machines with cloaking abilities since, at least the middle of the 1900s. That's implausible and leaves many unanswered questions as to why we never used it in any wars or for any nobel causes...
2. Enemy technology. Similar analysis. Also there are a finite number of nations so advanced this is plausible, maybe 3 or 5. Not likely.
3. Rogue civilians? Impossible. The costs, the tech, the lack of any actions to sell the tech to anyone, etc. And it's been ongoing for many many decades across the globe.
4. Alien technology. This is what we are left with.
Do you have any better theories, if you do I'm all ears??
I don't believe anyone has claimed they have "allowed themselves and tech to be captured." Logically, they are subjected to the same forces of random events and technology failures and user error all forces of nature are subjected to. It's hardly 'far fetched' to believe space crafts might have mechanical, technological, or user failures. Or be shot down. Not understanding how this is a hard concept.
Also, your position is internally inconsistent. If it's such secretive advanced tech, why are we flying it around in rural or heavily populated areas where people will see it? Would that not give the other side great opportunity to copy it, or opportunity for it to crash? It makes no sense to have this secret tech and fly it around over Topeka or Phoenix or in other nations like Mexico, etc. These sightings occur over the world.
No, no it's not. Statistically, mathmatically, historically, and technologically speaking these are more likely alien technology that has visited. Consider these observations occurred by military aircraft pilots of ALL sides of the WWII war, and labeled "foo fighters." To believe any side of the war, Allies or Axis, had such a leap of disruptive technology but did not employ it nor was it ever discovered, when the fate of the world was at stake, is nonsense. Yet here's pictures and many veterans said they saw these orbs in the sky. This predates the jet engine or rocket missiles, and our instruments were generally all analogue technology. But to believe as you suggest, someone had ORBS yet did not weaponize them in any sense? I don't believe that's even plausible.
This and similar such objects have been seen by millions of humans over decades and even centuries, far before man invented flight to be specific. Columbus documented in his journal a UFO sighting. There are religious paintings with chariots in the skies from Biblical times.
The reality is that for thousands of years, these advanced creatures have visited to study humans and earth.
False. Because applying logic, reason, history, etc. of all known tech, this tech is decades more advanced from where we are now in 2023. And I saw it decades ago. What I saw I would estimate is not even humanly possible (without alien tech to copy), for many more decades. If we've had this ultra sophisticated tech, why have we not used it for space travel, war, or other applications? Why? Why are we just sitting on it since, presumably at least the 1980s but instead keep going back to plain old rocket propelled fighter jets and bombers, flying the POTUS around in an invisible clocking device silent triangle, etc? It would be completely illogical to have this tech and not exploit and use it.
So for how long have we had this fantastic tech and not used it to any significant advantage? How do you explain all the photos and videos, the abduction evidence of which many stories are very credible, etc.?
So instead, millions or maybe billions of UFO sightings going back decades, or centuries, is all just a big mass hallucination?
What is your explanation? There are a finite number of possible options.
1. US technology. This fails to answer it b/c it's been observed for decades and centuries yet we are not employing it, it befuddles are most trained fighter pilots and engineers who speak about the tech, and it's seen around the world not limited to "safe" US airspace IOW where it could be captured. To believe this, you'd have to believe we've had crazy advanced anti-gravity flying machines with cloaking abilities since, at least the middle of the 1900s. That's implausible and leaves many unanswered questions as to why we never used it in any wars or for any nobel causes...
2. Enemy technology. Similar analysis. Also there are a finite number of nations so advanced this is plausible, maybe 3 or 5. Not likely.
3. Rogue civilians? Impossible. The costs, the tech, the lack of any actions to sell the tech to anyone, etc. And it's been ongoing for many many decades across the globe.
4. Alien technology. This is what we are left with.
Do you have any better theories, if you do I'm all ears??
You're making a similar mistake folks make about religion in trying to apply human understanding to beings with IQs possibly into the 10s of thousands. We are probably, quite likely, some type of science experiment to observe, monitor, snatch a few, manipulate our DNA, etc. We're probably an interesting curiousity, mostly just observed like we'd observe an ant colony in the yard.
We could go off on the deep end about who really controls the human race, and why there seems to be huge invisible forces of nature at work in many aspects of life. I'll leave it at that but suffice it to say, I believe the wrong approach is attempting to apply human thinking to highly advanced species many so advanced interstellar travel is effortless for them.
I believe it naive to think aliens are here. No matter how advanced the technology, the size of the universe makes finding us a statistical impossibility. I know the history, read quite a lot about these sightings. Read up on SR-71 development a bit. I think the model was YF-12A. Many pilots reported fantastic and impossible capabilities when they saw it. Shiny aluminum helped as well. That's exactly why experimental aircraft have this.
Human eyesight and perception are very easy to fool, especially in the sky with little to no reference points.
Also, just ask any magician how they perform their "magic"
Human eyesight and perception are very easy to fool, especially in the sky with little to no reference points.
Also, just ask any magician how they perform their "magic"
What were the Phoenix lights sightings? A mass illusion?
Hard to call it a mass illusion when there's recorded video for everyone to see.
The Phoenix lights fit the definition of Unexplained Aerial Phenomenon.
But that doesn't instantly mean visitors from another planet.
Sounds like Bob Lazar story. However what got really weird was that George Knapp interviewed him and did some digging. Multiple govt agencies deny ever knowing or employing Lazar. However when Knapp went back he found a picture of Lazar working at White Sands, and a directory listing and phone number.I am, of course, skeptical, as much as I’d like this to be true.
How are his claims any different than anybody else who’s claimed, over the years, to have insider knowledge that our govt, and others, possess recovered alien vehicles and technology?
He admits everything he’s claiming is hearsay, and he possesses no evidence.
When it comes to things like this, I always remember the old saying, “the only way 3 people can keep a secret is if 2 of them are dead”.
I just don’t think anyone could keep a secret of this magnitude. I don’t know what I don’t know, though.
What do yall think?
Military whistleblower claims US has UFO retrieval program
Grusch said the government has been lying to the American public for decades.www.newsnationnow.com
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So he's like Bob Lazar?I am, of course, skeptical, as much as I’d like this to be true.
How are his claims any different than anybody else who’s claimed, over the years, to have insider knowledge that our govt, and others, possess recovered alien vehicles and technology?
He admits everything he’s claiming is hearsay, and he possesses no evidence.
When it comes to things like this, I always remember the old saying, “the only way 3 people can keep a secret is if 2 of them are dead”.
I just don’t think anyone could keep a secret of this magnitude. I don’t know what I don’t know, though.
What do yall think?
Military whistleblower claims US has UFO retrieval program
Grusch said the government has been lying to the American public for decades.
Bob Lazar Has equal parts of being credible where the things that he say checks out and equal parts of things where skeptics basically just tear him a new one and make it look like he is making fantastical claims.
I'm more inclined to believe the things that don't seem to have evidence because I mean if hes embellishing then either people have got his number or hes telling the truth I don't know if there's any in between.
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