UK to ban sale of new petrol and diesel cars from 2030

I hope they are planning on doubling or tripling the electric grid capacity to power their total electric transportation system. And what source of energy will power those electric plants? EV's are not "pollution free". They just move the source of pollution to a fixed plant. Even wind and solar create "eye pollution" by visually polluting the landscape with massive windmills and solar arrays.

Plus all that windmill cancer! Just from the noise alone - terrible things.
 
Hybrids may in fact use less energy per mile than EV's. The multiple losses from Power Plant fuel, to wheel on an EV are higher than most realize. Put simply, a gallon of energy (you pick ems) will drive most hybrids a minimum of 20% farther than a gallon of energy fed into a Power Plant that charges an EV.

Furthermore, today's hybrids are already excellent and getting better. Ford is coming out with a Hybrid 400+ HP F150.

I completely agree here.
 
Six gallons of diesel, if never produced, can drive a BEV for 200 kilometres and stay in the ground.
Edit: It's less than two gallons of course (six litres or quarts).
 
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Even wind and solar create "eye pollution" by visually polluting the landscape with massive windmills and solar arrays.
Yeah, nuthin' quite as stunning as an oil drilling yard... The mud pumps, offshore rigs...
And the orphaned yards give us a beautiful landscape for many years to come!
Wish they could do fracking above ground... Dang!
Then there is the ultra gorgeous massive oil spills to make the ugly blue ocean prettier and save all the sea life.

All good.
 
Yeah, solar is really dumb.
In the past year and a half I've paid $10 per month, or less, to be hooked up to the PGE grid. $0 for the actual electricity. And in the summer I now blast the AC like never before.
It increased the value of our house, even though the house value is 99% based on zip code.
Tesla gas and maintenance cost, $0. Other cars, oil, gas, plugs, brakes, stuff, lotsa money.

America can lead in the EV and renewable energy industries or let someone else.
I appreciate and learn from people's information regarding costs, efficiency, etc., but to an extent I find them cherry picking. I can cherry pick too.
Subsidies? Name a gas company or car maker who hasn't had subsidies. Tesla paid back loans that others have not.
Efficiency? Depends on the car and use case.
No wind or sun? Batteries are seeing more installations.

It seems almost simple – all you need to do is connect a number of hydrogen atoms to one helium atom, and there you have cheap and clean energy. The sun has been doing it for five billion years.


What was the real cost though? That keeps getting left out of the equation.
 
Yeah, solar is really dumb.
In the past year and a half I've paid $10 per month, or less, to be hooked up to the PGE grid. $0 for the actual electricity. And in the summer I now blast the AC like never before.
It increased the value of our house, even though the house value is 99% based on zip code.
Tesla gas and maintenance cost, $0. Other cars, oil, gas, plugs, brakes, stuff, lotsa money.
Jeff didn’t you say your solar system will be paid off in 8 years? Your cost this year wasn’t Zero. It was 1/8 of the original capital cost. You are sugar coating your savings a bit. ( I can’t find the smiley thing.)
 
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Jeff didn’t you say you solar system will be paid off in 8 years? Your cost this year wasn’t Zero. It was 1/8 of the original capital cost. You are sugar coating your savings a bit. ( I can’t find the smiley thing.)
Yes, depending on how you wanna swag the numbers. I bought the panels as an investment with an expected return and a hedge against rising electricity cost.
I installed the solar panels before the buying the Tesla; so the Tesla accelerates the break even point. It is hard to quantify, but the break even point should be between 6 and 7 years with current rates. PGE prices will probably go up as PGE fire fines come in. In the past 10 years, summer electricity rates, off peak, have more than doubled. Peak rates are up over 30% I believe. And it ain't stopping.
The panels are guaranteed for 25 years, so the purchase is a no brainer. And the house value increases. But again, the home value is the zip code.

But your point is well taken. I was making the point that people make generalizations that can swag numbers just like I am. I live in a Silicon Valley bubble, for sure. Our energy costs are some of the highest in the nation, especially gasoline.
 
What was the real cost though? That keeps getting left out of the equation.
Good point.
The solar panel price was $17,085 from Infinity Solar in Rocklin, CA.. I got a tax credit of $5,125.50 so the net was $11,959.50.
I also had a new roof installed and got the the 30% tax credit as it is considered a "solar project" by the Feds.
So I got a $13K roof for $9,100. Sweet...
If I had known I was gonna get the Tesla so soon, I would have had the NEMA 14-50 installed in the garage and rolled that into the project as well.
The solar panels, over the 25 year lifetime, are expected to save ballpark $60,000. But who knows for sure?

Where I live solar is a no brainer. And prices continue to drop. I bet my system today is more like $15K; probably less.
Just so you know, I had a multi year plan to minimize living expenses going forward. The goal was so my wife would be set if I died. Of course, she has more money than I do, but that is not the point. I completed my goal and it makes me happy.
 
Where I live solar is a no brainer. And prices continue to drop. I bet my system today is more like $15K; probably less.
You're lucky that where you live your panels will be paid off fast. Where I am, 12 out of the next 14 day forecast calls for clouds and at this time of the year the only sunshine we get is when people are [normally] at work and not at home.

Solar is a great thing if you can harness everything you need and expect it to always be available no matter the time of the day. I sincerely hope we do get there soon but it's still unrealistic for some of us - for now.
 
Good point.
The solar panel price was $17,085 from Infinity Solar in Rocklin, CA.. I got a tax credit of $5,125.50 so the net was $11,959.50.
I also had a new roof installed and got the the 30% tax credit as it is considered a "solar project" by the Feds.
So I got a $13K roof for $9,100. Sweet...
If I had known I was gonna get the Tesla so soon, I would have had the NEMA 14-50 installed in the garage and rolled that into the project as well.
The solar panels, over the 25 year lifetime, are expected to save ballpark $60,000. But who knows for sure?

Where I live solar is a no brainer. And prices continue to drop. I bet my system today is more like $15K; probably less.
Just so you know, I had a multi year plan to minimize living expenses going forward. The goal was so my wife would be set if I died. Of course, she has more money than I do, but that is not the point. I completed my goal and it makes me happy.


You live in a region that has plenty of sunshine. Where I live, the sun will reappear around May of next year. Today it’s very dark and pouring rain with gusty winds. Not fit for man nor beast.
 
Panels generate electricity on cloudy days. The companies use a satellite pic of your roof; they know your region, climate, trees and other obstructions. My cost was low beause of location; others generally need a larger system to generate the same amount of power.
An estimate is free. Costco offers Sunrun; they are one of the biggest and are very good. They almost got my business.

I may consider a Tesla Powerwall... But not now.
 
Yes, the panels generate when it’s cloudy but it’s a small percentage. To be fair on everything else, yes, all the cloudy days etc are calculated in. Some installations here are bolted to the roof without adjusting the angle resulting in too low of angle angle for the snow to fall off resulting in significantly poor production until the snow clears. With all that taken into consideration plus the 50 degree latitude and our relatively cheap power, we end up with a 25 year payout assuming you hired someone to do it. The other reality here is 95 % of BC’s power is hydro electric so it doesn’t even help with carbon. Still, I like hearing about everyone’s system as long as it mentions capital cost.
 
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Some installations here are bolted to the roof without adjusting the angle resulting in too low of angle angle for the snow to fall off resulting in significantly poor production until the snow clears.
Our local government installed solar cells on an arena. Problem is the roof is almost flat and the panels are snow covered most of the winter, say 4 months of the year.
Can't fix stupid or the lure of government heavily subsidised "green" projects.
Original Ontario FIT solar installations paid at 81 cents per kwh, 10x the going rate of conventional hydro/nuclear.
 
I love the idea of the electric cars. If you can charge in 15 minutes and get 250 miles, I am good. Less moving parts, less emissions garbage to break, no check engine light haha.
 
I love the idea of the electric cars. If you can charge in 15 minutes and get 250 miles, I am good. Less moving parts, less emissions garbage to break, no check engine light haha.
"15 minutes and 250 miles" is ICE think which is fine for ICE cars. EVs are different.
How about 250 miles and no waiting? Most EV owners come home, plug in and go in the house. I tell people, these cars are different; you learn.

If you are interested, perhaps go test drive an entry level Tesla Model 3. They start at $38K. 263 mile range (EPA, not what you will get), 0 to 60 in 5.3 seconds but they feel faster in real world driving.
Amazing cars.
 
"15 minutes and 250 miles" is ICE think which is fine for ICE cars. EVs are different.
How about 250 miles and no waiting? Most EV owners come home, plug in and go in the house. I tell people, these cars are different; you learn.

If you are interested, perhaps go test drive an entry level Tesla Model 3. They start at $38K. 263 mile range (EPA, not what you will get), 0 to 60 in 5.3 seconds but they feel faster in real world driving.
Amazing cars.
I don't think the electric cars are ready for prime time yet. However, I did drive a Model S and was thoroughly impressed! Also, I live in an apt building and park on the street, so I would not be able to charge it.
 
As well, let's look at the true costs of solar and wind including subsidies as well as actual output not just rated output.
A not so secret secret, is that solar and wind needs conventional generation backup, for times the wind doesn't blow and the sun doesn't shine.
Layer all that into a true cost per kwh vs a well run nuclear site such as Darlington, Ontario, the difference in costs would be "shocking" I am sure.
We as consumer sheep are easy to fool and think what the TV tells us to think and do what the tv tells us to do. Marketing works.
 
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