Two versions of M1 5w30 ESP now?

[d00df00d]

I mean, don't you always want the lowest SAPS necessary for the performance you need?

Sulfated ash correlates with a major source of deposits. Phosphorus poisons catalytic converters and correlates with ZDDP, which can also cause deposits and other bad effects when there's too much of it. Sulfur can cause sulfuric acid generation.

If the Corvette runs cleanly enough, and if lower-SAPS oils are up to the job, I'd imagine that'd be the way to go.

 

[buster]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
I mean, don't you always want the lowest SAPS necessary for the performance you need?

Sulfated ash correlates with a major source of deposits. Phosphorus poisons catalytic converters and correlates with ZDDP, which can also cause deposits and other bad effects when there's too much of it. Sulfur can cause sulfuric acid generation.

If the Corvette runs cleanly enough, and if lower-SAPS oils are up to the job, I'd imagine that'd be the way to go.


I think so too. For years the ZDDP/CAT converter issue was supposedly controlled by keeping NOACK low. With the reduction of metallic additives, formulators have had to rely on and use alternatives. I'm not sure how the initial lower TBN impacts the oils ability over longer drain intervals however.

I believe the ESP line though is top tier all things considered.

 

[Patman]

I'm not too concerned with the lower TBN given the fact that I won't go much beyond about a 7k interval, that's about as far as the oil life monitor will let most Corvette owners go.

 

[Patman]

Now when I go onto the Mobil 1 website, I see that they no longer list the ESP Formula version of 5w30 (the one I'm running now) So now there is only one version, and it's the one that I felt didn't have the better technical specs (the HTHS is lower, the sulfated ash is higher, flashpoint is lower) So once the stores here in Canada stop carrying the original ESP Formula 5w30 and only start carrying the ESP 5w30, I will most likely switch over to 0w40 ESP Formula (hopefully by then it'll be readily available and reasonably priced, otherwise another alternative I am considering would be Pennzoil Platinum Euro L 5w30)

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by Bjornviken
the M1 5w-30 esp is now gtl based

And they managed to retain exactly sam numbers? That is hard to believe. I would say 5W30 ESP is still VISOM. Now, maybe GTL still did not find its way to the North America.

 

[1JZ_E46]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Bjornviken
the M1 5w-30 esp is now gtl based

And they managed to retain exactly sam numbers? That is hard to believe. I would say 5W30 ESP is still VISOM. Now, maybe GTL still did not find its way to the North America.


Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30 (quart-sized bottles) is 30-40% GTL

Mobil 1 ESP "Formula" 5W-30 (liter size bottles) is not

What's confusing is that 0W-40 ESP is in liter-sized bottles (non-GTL), and the "formula" version (U.S. version) is in quart-sized bottles (60-70% GTL). Mobil's naming convention is odd.

It appears Mobil likes to use GTL in its U.S. products.

 

[buster]

Originally Posted by Patman
Now when I go onto the Mobil 1 website, I see that they no longer list the ESP Formula version of 5w30 (the one I'm running now) So now there is only one version, and it's the one that I felt didn't have the better technical specs (the HTHS is lower, the sulfated ash is higher, flashpoint is lower) So once the stores here in Canada stop carrying the original ESP Formula 5w30 and only start carrying the ESP 5w30, I will most likely switch over to 0w40 ESP Formula (hopefully by then it'll be readily available and reasonably priced, otherwise another alternative I am considering would be Pennzoil Platinum Euro L 5w30)


The 0w40 ESP and 5w30 ESP both have very similar specs. I didn't realize they were that close. Both look great IMO. SA for the 5w30 is now .8 when it was .6 but it retains all the good specs. I'd use either one.

 

[jongies3]

Is ESP Dexos certified? If not, I wouldn't be using it in your new 'Vette due to warranty issues. It's unlikely anything will happen using it, but why chance it in case it does? That car's a big investment to being playing the what if game.

 

[Patman]

Yes, both versions of the 5w30 ESP and the 0w40 ESP are all dexos2 certified.

 

[bbhero]

Originally Posted by d00df00d
Originally Posted by bbhero
The Formula version has Porsche C30.. which According to the Lubrizol spider spec sheet is the toughest specification to meet for any 30 viscosity oil. That is quite impressive.

Lubrizol says that chart isn't really good for comparing across manufacturers. It works for comparing C30 against another Porsche spec, but it might give misleading results if you try to compare, say, Porsche C30 against VW 504/507.




Don't know about that.... The site has the VW specs has well. . But hey.. you could well be right too.

I'd still bet the C30 is one of the toughest on the 30 viscosity range. Just like A40 is has well for a 40 operating viscosity.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted by bbhero
Originally Posted by d00df00d
Originally Posted by bbhero
The Formula version has Porsche C30.. which According to the Lubrizol spider spec sheet is the toughest specification to meet for any 30 viscosity oil. That is quite impressive.

Lubrizol says that chart isn't really good for comparing across manufacturers. It works for comparing C30 against another Porsche spec, but it might give misleading results if you try to compare, say, Porsche C30 against VW 504/507.




Don't know about that.... The site has the VW specs has well. . But hey.. you could well be right too.

It says so on the page:

 

[bbhero]

However....


Why does the Porsche A40 have MUCH higher ratings for say deposits and wear than say even Dexos gen 1??

Probably good bad or indifferent.... Porsche A40 is a tougher specification to meet. In fact look at the testing video that Porsche uses to test an oil to meet that spec. It is quite impressive.

 

[d00df00d]

When I compare the Honda Civic to other economy cars, I give it a 9/10 for comfort.

When I compare the BMW 3-Series to other luxury cars, I give it a 6/10 for comfort.

Did I just say the Civic is 50% more comfortable than the 3-Series??

Of course not. The ratings are on different scales so they can't be compared.

That's what's going on in the Lubrizol tool. dexos 1 gets a 5/10 for piston deposits compared to other comparable specs. Porsche A40 gets an 8/10 for piston deposits compared to other comparable specs. Porsche A40 and dexos 1 aren't comparable specs, therefore the numbers aren't necessarily on similar scales, therefore what the chart suggests may or may not play out in real life.

I actually agree with you that Porsche A40 is probably the tougher spec in many (if not most) respects, and probably one of the toughest in the business. But the Lubrizol tool doesn't show you that.

 

[bbhero]

Originally Posted by d00df00d
When I compare the Honda Civic to other economy cars, I give it a 9/10 for comfort.

When I compare the BMW 3-Series to other luxury cars, I give it a 6/10 for comfort.

Did I just say the Civic is 50% more comfortable than the 3-Series??

Of course not. The ratings are on different scales so they can't be compared.

That's what's going on in the Lubrizol tool. dexos 1 gets a 5/10 for piston deposits compared to other comparable specs. Porsche A40 gets an 8/10 for piston deposits compared to other comparable specs. Porsche A40 and dexos 1 aren't comparable specs, therefore the numbers aren't on the same scale, therefore what the chart suggests may or may not play out in real life.

I actually agree with you that Porsche A40 is probably the tougher spec, and probably one of the toughest in the business. I'm saying the Lubrizol tool doesn't show you that.



That makes sense

The Lubrizol part.

It is interesting that the Porsche A40 does show on that chart has actually being a "higher" level performing spec to meet.

I think the hierarchy is like this from easier to meet to toughest...

Older API specs and older ACEA specs



API SN
API SN+

ACEA A5/B5
Dexos gen 2

ACEA A3/B4

Porsche A40
MB 229.5
BMW LL-01

 

[Crobinson16]

Originally Posted by Patman
Originally Posted by loneryder
Why does a Corvette need a low saps oil??


Direct injection


Patman, just curious if you have looked at the rotella t6 5w 30 multi vehicle. How would it compare to the mobile esp old/new 5w30 or the new 0w40. Trying to decide what I want to run in new 6.2 Silverado. Would like to find something for year round use. Thanks. And before anyone else says it calls for 0w20 d1g2 , I'm not running that in my truck.

 

[Patman]

I really haven't considered that oil, it's more geared for diesel engines so it's kind of off my radar.

 

[oil_film_movies]

Originally Posted by Crobinson16
Patman, just curious if you have looked at the rotella t6 5w 30 multi vehicle. How would it compare to the mobile esp old/new 5w30 or the new 0w40. Trying to decide what I want to run in new 6.2 Silverado. Would like to find something for year round use. Thanks. And before anyone else says it calls for 0w20 d1g2 , I'm not running that in my truck.
Mobil1 AFE 0w30 would give you more high temperature viscosity than the spec'ed 0w20 while still getting the "0w" cold flow part GM wants you to have for the 6.2L. The T6 Multi-vehicle would be OK to use, but too thick, and not dexos1 Gen2 technically, although that form of T6 does have low Ca to keep LSPI away. I think its too thick for your application, so M1 AFE 0w30 dexos1 Gen2 is my choice there.

 

[Crobinson16]

Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Originally Posted by Crobinson16
Patman, just curious if you have looked at the rotella t6 5w 30 multi vehicle. How would it compare to the mobile esp old/new 5w30 or the new 0w40. Trying to decide what I want to run in new 6.2 Silverado. Would like to find something for year round use. Thanks. And before anyone else says it calls for 0w20 d1g2 , I'm not running that in my truck.
Mobil1 AFE 0w30 would give you more high temperature viscosity than the spec'ed 0w20 while still getting the "0w" cold flow part GM wants you to have for the 6.2L. The T6 Multi-vehicle would be OK to use, but too thick, and not dexos1 Gen2 technically, although that form of T6 does have low Ca to keep LSPI away. I think its too thick for your application, so M1 AFE 0w30 dexos1 Gen2 is my choice there.




I'm currently using m1 ep 5w30, drained the factory fill at 500 miles. gm has already upped the viscosity to 0w40 on the Corvette, yes it's a different platform but the 6.2l in the trucks are the same basic engine except the obvious intake, cam and some other parts. The truck weights nearly twice as much as a Corvette , so under normal driving it would already have a slightly higher load on the engine let alone doing any kind of towing. The stress on the oil I feel could be more strenuous at times in a truck platform even though it's not being track raced. I tow occasionally with my truck and I'm a sprited driver, the power in the 6.2 Silverado makes them fun to drive. I've checked my oil temps and at times and I've seen 235-245 F I don't feel comfortable with 0w20.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted by Patman
I really haven't considered that oil, it's more geared for diesel engines so it's kind of off my radar.

So is dexos2 oil, to hear it told here, sometimes.

Honestly, if we were able to leave GM's dexos program aside, I suspect an E6 lubricant would be a very suitable choice, and more cost effective right now, at least until we start seeing dexos2 oils appear in more suitable container sizes.

 

[Crobinson16]

Do any of you oil guys have a comparison of the t6 multi vehicle 5w30 and the Mobil esp 5w30 or 0w40 to see what difference are. Where one might be better than the other in different areas of the oil composition