Toyota trucks...for work or for parades?

[biomed_eng_2000]

Jaybird,
Perhaps that is why chose to buy a Land Cruiser...Japanese management, made with Japanese labor.

and not a Tundra/Sequoia...Japanese management, made with American labor.

Perhaps I sensed the detrimental tension and conflict of cultures in the Tundra/Sequoia without even knowing it.

 

[1sttruck]

I think that 'having a pickup and not always hauling stuff' or having 4x4 and not always offroading is kind of lame. A 4x4 full size pickup is just one type of larger vehicle, a versatile one whose utility extends beyond the farm or ranch. Extending lameness to other vehicles we would have:

If you have a minivan why aren't the seats always occupied ?

If you have a BMW why aren't driving 125mph ?

If you have a SUV why aren't you offroadng ?

If you have an economy car why are driving over 55 mph ?

 

[lovcom]

Originally Posted By: 1sttruck
I think that 'having a pickup and not always hauling stuff' or having 4x4 and not always offroading is kind of lame. A 4x4 full size pickup is just one type of larger vehicle, a versatile one whose utility extends beyond the farm or ranch. Extending lameness to other vehicles we would have:

If you have a minivan why aren't the seats always occupied ?

If you have a BMW why aren't driving 125mph ?

If you have a SUV why aren't you offroadng ?

If you have an economy car why are driving over 55 mph ?



People should buy whatever they want. Yes, we agree. However most people will treat the choice as fashion. Often dad buys his $40,000 full size pick up, nearly never hauls anything, and the children's braces, or thier college tuiton, new shoes be daamed. Same goes if dad wants his $50,000 BMW, Corvette, etc...of course for those can truly afford these "toys" all the power to them...but these types are the exception and not the rule. Look around....everywhere you find people wasting massive amounts of $$ on vehicles whose mission they cannot justify. Most people don't care about retirement until they're 65 and eating Mac & Cheese. Every day. ;-) People fill entitled. They exclaim "I deserve it"...to the detriment of their future, or of their family's futures.

 

[lovcom]

Originally Posted By: oilnoob425
Originally Posted By: Jaybird
oilnoob, I can only say that you have no idea of what you are talking about. I will excuse the "blindfolded, bigoted redneck" names you throw around, as you probably don't know better.
But I ask you, how can a nation, that has only been around for a short period of time, be the leader of the world? And make no mistake, we ARE the leaders of the world, in technological as well as social advancement. It surely doesn't happen by the lack of motivation and work ethic.

I suggest you take your anti-American drivel and move to imadorkistan, where your depth and insight would be more appreciated.

And for your information, yes, I have been to multiple foreign countries, and have seen the workforces there.

Let me guess, you are another upset Toyota buyer full of angst and buyers remorse? I wouldn't worry. There are lots of those with similar misconceptions of reality and skewed perceptions of what quality actually is. You shouldn't have any trouble unloading your Toyota.


I know exactly what I'm talking about. Your comments about americans being leaders of the world in technological as well as social advancement ARE NOT true. It's just your biased opinion based on nothing and doesn't mean anything. I had many jobs and bought many american made products, what I've seen wasn't very thrilling. I didn't give you any antiamerican drivel, I just don't like your empty sensless "patriotic" drivel. Your "imadorkistan" remark pretty much prove my "blindfolded, bigoted redneck" assesment. And I suggest your keep your suggestions to youself. FYI I don't own and never did own any Toyota products.


OilNoob, I have worked all over Europe and of course the US and Mexico too. Over years of working in Spain, German, England, Italy, Portugal, France, I have found Europeans to work VERY slowly, as if they have all day long. You boast of Euro products, but what Euro products do American's buy? Primarily just cars, INFERIOR UNRELIABLE cars like Mercedes, BMW, Volvo, Saab, Range Rover to name a few. ALL these brands show less reliability then most Hyundai models, and this is fact.

American's drive the computer software industry. American programmers are the most skilled, efficient, and produce the most code in the world. We drive most of the operating systems used by the entire world. We invented most of the computer languages used by the computers of the world.

We practice the most profitable capatalism in the world, and have shown the most success.

You point at Europe's social programs, the nanny state, solcialism, sky high taxes, low home ownership ratios, and you call it progressive and better? Nope, been there, done that..it is backwards and inferior too.

By the way, did you know that Americans use more body soap per capita then any other country in the world...think about that!

 

[tr4petty]

What irks me about the Japanese is their unfair trade practices with the US. I seem to recall a 60 minutes program back in the 80's that covered the subject. They asked the Japanese why a $5,000 American car cost $25,000 in Japan. Their answer was a series of tests, evaluations, inspections, etc. that the cars were put through in order to be allowed sold in their country. In other words, anything they could do to keep American cars from selling in their country was done. While we coddle and cater to the Japanese, they think of every way possible to limit our products' success in their country. The Japanese seem to think they're still at war with the US. The only difference is, it's being fought on the economic front. The sad thing is there are millions of misguided Americans helping them win it!

 

[glennc]

No, in fact the lesson is just the opposite: that free trade is good and the Japanese reluctance to buy from outside their economy has hurt them. They are only now possibly recovering from many years of stagnant growth and have given up a large portion of their eononomic might and influence.

We on the other hand have forced out domestic industry to improve by refusing to coddle it and, if it is unable to improve, then in the long run, those economic resources will be put to use elsewhere.

It is immensely to OUR advantage that we have a (relatively) open and free economy and one of the great economic lessons to be learned is that those who don't gain at most a bit of short-term comfort in exchange for long-term advantage.

 

[brianl703]

Originally Posted By: glennc

It is immensely to OUR advantage that we have a (relatively) open and free economy


I think we should go for the next step and get rid of all those pesky environmental and labor laws.

 

[01rangerxl]

Originally Posted By: glennc
No, in fact the lesson is just the opposite: that free trade is good and the Japanese reluctance to buy from outside their economy has hurt them. They are only now possibly recovering from many years of stagnant growth and have given up a large portion of their eononomic might and influence.

We on the other hand have forced out domestic industry to improve by refusing to coddle it and, if it is unable to improve, then in the long run, those economic resources will be put to use elsewhere.

It is immensely to OUR advantage that we have a (relatively) open and free economy and one of the great economic lessons to be learned is that those who don't gain at most a bit of short-term comfort in exchange for long-term advantage.

While it is true that a free and open economy is ultimately the best way to go, we do get the [censored] end of the stick when we try to deal with countries like Japan. It is very hard to US companies to do business in countries like Japan, yet they thrive on doing business in our country. In America, a 4Runner and an Explorer both cost $35,000. In Japan, a 4Runner is $35,000 while an Explorer is $70,000. Ford has sold probably close to 15 million Explorers in the US, but they can't even get a foot in the door in Japan because they have to sell $35,000 trucks for $70,000. If you look at the lineups American companies offer in Japan, it's all Corvettes, Cadillacs, Mustangs and Lincolns because only luxury/fun cars are worth the hassle.

 

[FowVay]

That information that you mention is interesting 01Ranger. I went to Ford's Japan website and they list the Explorer at 4,3 million yen, including taxes. That's a US dollar price of about $40,000 with taxes included.

Where do these crazy rumors come from when all of this information is at our fingertips?

 

[01rangerxl]

The last time I compared prices about a year ago, using info from Ford's Japan website, I got about $70K for a loaded Explorer.

I stand corrected, you can get an Explorer for less than $70K in Japan, however there is still a large price difference. The 4,3 million yen model shown on Ford's website is just an XLT, and most likely just a 2WD. You know what that truck stickers at in the US? $26K. $14K is a pretty big increase over sticker, and it most definitely gives Toyota an unfair advantage in worldwide sales. The difference between Limited models sold in Japan and the US is over $20K, using info from the Ford website. There is no good reason for that. Japan just wants to keep US companies out of their country while they do business freely in ours.

 

[jduramax]

 

[brianl703]

Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
Japan just wants to keep US companies out of their country while they do business freely in ours.


Japanese electrical outlets are the same NEMA 1-15 as we use in the USA.

However:

"The Japanese plug and socket are identical to NEMA 1-15. However, the Japanese system incorporates stricter dimensional requirements for the plug housing, different marking requirements, and mandatory testing and approval by MITI or JIS.[8]"

I don't expect that Leviton sells any outlets in Japan.

 

[javacontour]

I toured the Ford Explorer plant here in St Louis when I installed some servers. I saw them building RHD Explorers destined for Japan.

They pulled them off the line when done and did extra QC checks on them before sending them to Japan.

It seems the quality the US consumer is willing to accept is not good enough for the Japanese market, as they fixed more things at the factory before shipping out the units destined for Japan.

Not that that makes up the difference in price. But it was bothersome that Ford would put more into QC for a Japan bound Explorer than they did for the ones sold here.

On the other side of the coin, I doubt the numbers for each market are even close, probably 10's or 100's of thousands to one US to Japan sales.

But still, it seems there was some ability for more QC that we were not getting here.

 

[Max_Wander]

It costs more to incorporate more QC. The Japanese have a market of better-made vehicles/products in general (sorry, thats just a fact). If Ford didnt intend to sell any units overseas, they wouldnt do the extra QC check. The real discrepency between North American culture and Japanese culture is that North Americans are not as tuned into nuances, if two panel fit together, anything beyond that doesnt seem to matter (like how well they fit together). We're consumers we consume.

 

[brianl703]

Yea, look at the [censored] they slap together and sell for half a million bucks in some of these developments.

 

[Jaybird]

Originally Posted By: Max_Wander
The Japanese have a market of better-made vehicles/products in general (sorry, thats just a fact).

I'd like to see some supporting documentation to back up your factual claim. Or are you simply stating facts based on your perceptions?
No need to be sorry. I am just curious how you arrived at your "facts"?

 

[Max_Wander]

Originally Posted By: Jaybird
Originally Posted By: Max_Wander
The Japanese have a market of better-made vehicles/products in general (sorry, thats just a fact).

I'd like to see some supporting documentation to back up your factual claim. Or are you simply stating facts based on your perceptions?
No need to be sorry. I am just curious how you arrived at your "facts"?


Observation mostly. It's a pretty obvious fact (to me anyway) and it is supported by the Japanese' higher morale and work ethic and duty to QC. American head offices are only concerned about the bottom line & getting govt handouts, and the invincible unionized employees are never sober! I'm not saying they don't have the potential, they just don't have a motive! There are a few things (that are not automobiles or consumer products) that are made very well in the USA. Raw materials like wire, alloys, wood products, chemicals and anything made for war and combat are generally what you'd like to see made in the USA.

 

[njcruiser]

Jaybird-Just accept the fact the japense produce better cars and expect better quality than the average american. Jeez. Since I posted pages back I have seen numerous people chime in to support the facts, not impressions.
Another fact.
Intel ATCA Telecom boards that are destined for use in Japan go through additional quality checks that are not done on boards sold in the US or other countries. Quality checks are down to an IPC standard, even including fingerprints on bare sheet metal(back plate, eventually went to brushed metal finish to help), scratches(no more than 2, 2inces long), label placement within silkscreen of circuit board, component placement, front faceplate label could not overlap cutouts in faceplate holes for LED's at all, etc, etc, etc. A lot more, but do you get the idea yet(guessing not based on previous facts shown to you)? WE only had to do this for japan boards, ie, same US board with the -JP label. THey expect better, we do not.
NOt one US customer has ever taken apart boards, looking for visual defects. The Japanese do..........truth be told, they improved our quality overall.
Sorry.

 

[1sttruck]

"The Japanese have a market of better-made vehicles/products in general (sorry, thats just a fact)."

No, in fact it's not a fact. I'll draw a line in the sand right here and state that the longest lasting passenger / non-commercial vehicle that you can get in the US is a Dodge pickup with a Cummins diesel. I'll even disregard the fact that there are no Japanese 3/4 ton and 1 ton pickups.

Audio is a languishing hobby of mine, and the best audio gear is stuff that most people have never even heard of, and is largely US nad British. The Japanese do good high end phono cartridges.

Astronomy is a hobby, and some of the best telescopes are made in the US.

Target shooting used to be a hobby, and there is little in the way of Japanese firearms that were used. The standard firearm on the line was a Winchester M70 Target.

Cutlery is a hobby, and although the Japanese do make some nice stuff, classic katanas were some of the best swords made, the US has more custom and high end production makers offering a wider range of designs, steels, and heat treating, to whatever quality level you're willing to pay.

Very little of my tools are Japanese, none (?) of my clothing, none of my cars, but I do cherish my old Nikon and Canon camera gear, and my Fujinon Polaris binoculars.

We're on our third Taurus as we needed six passenger seating and just wanted a sedan, again there were no Japanese offerings, so they surely don't make a better vehicle in that category.

 

[byez]

Japanese cars in general age better, perform better in crash tests & will hold their resale value better than any domestic.

If you disagree, you are not drawing a line in the sand rather you have your head in it.

Buying only American does not make you a true American, it makes you a poor consumer. Isn't free trade and the concentration on goods that one can make most efficiently what America is all about?