Toyota trucks...for work or for parades?

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Originally Posted By: Jaybird
Americans have the best work ethic on the planet. You are making statements based on your perception, and not reality, njcruiser.


Do you have any data to back up this claim or is it based on quick perceptions as well?
 
Hi

One thing I have noticed.. guys who buy Toyota trucks think the following statements are examples of "working" your truck:


"Picks up supplies for home projects from lowes, home depot, etc."

"On the rare occasion I need to tow, I can do up to 10K easily and safely. This is not often."

Real vocational use often entails towing far in excess of the 10k. Ask any rancher moving steers to auction. You will often find F350 Power Stroke Super Dutys , GM DuraMax and Cummings Dodges doing the grunt work.

Domestic 3/4 and ton trucks are as common as sand on a beach because they can do the work. This work is often in excess of what a bag of peat moss from HD or Lowes weighs.

Simply no comparison.

Tundra is a weekend, play / recreational vehicle that might do those things well enough, but is not in any way compatible to needs of the vocational user.

Even commercial snow plowing can be out of a Tundra's league just by specing plows for them and comparing with what a K2500 HD or F250 SD can carry

According to Fisher a premier snow removal equipment manufacturer, the heaviest plow a Tundra with the 5.7 can handle is the "homeowner" LD (Light Duty) blade as its top offering and the 250 lb "homesteader" as its entry level line.

Weight on these truck's front end is a definite concern.



Fisher recommends for a Ford F250 SD, any of their heavy plows up to and including the 9.5 ft offerings.

I had links posted to illustrate the point, but I guess that isn't ok.
 
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I don't think anyone here is comparing the 1/2 ton Tundra to the 3/4 and 1 ton trucks from the Big 3. That's not fair to both sides. If you're going to debate the merits of one truck vs. another, do it honestly.

Toyota does not sell or promote the Tundra as a 3/4 ton or larger truck. No diesel engine is offered. There are no upfitter versions available AFAIK. I've never seen a service body for the new Tundra from companies like Stahl or Reading. Toyota doesn't seem to be interested in the commercial market.

If you're gonna compare the Tundra to the Big 3 offerings, be honest about it and compare it to the F150 5.4L, Ram 1500 5.7L and the GMT900 5.3L and 6.0L. That's it. Nothing else.

And for the record, my GMC has been perfect and I'd buy another in a heartbeat, although the '09 Ram looks killer. Toyota is not even on my shopping list but it is a worthy truck.
 
Originally Posted By: byez
http://www.iihs.org/ratings/summary.aspx?class=70

I'll take the better product without caring where its made.


Thinking like that is part of the problem this country is in now. And I don't think made in Japan automatically equals a better car. I do, however, respect your view because it's your hard earned money.


BTW -The GM trucks are not listed here, but all recieved great crash test results.
 
Originally Posted By: Jaybird
Americans have the best work ethic on the planet. You are making statements based on your perception, and not reality, njcruiser.

And your facts about the building of new auto plants is another of your perceptions, and not based on facts. Auto plants are being built all the time. Maybe not the structures that house them, but the tooling inside a plant is changed on a regular basis to accommodate new models and changes. Sometimes taking the plant to the concrete and starting fresh. This would differ from a new plant how?

The advise by Toyota to ride with the tailgate up is because they know it is a faulty component. But they are careful not to kill sales of their optional bed extenders.

OK, so the answer is, it's a parade (and apparently a ricer racer) truck and not a true work truck.


My perception is reality, thanks. I see it everday at work, and with the products I buy.
The auto plants is a fact too, sorry you can not deal with facts.
The big 3 lose money when they sell most cars/trucks. Toyota makes money, does that fact upset you as well?
Every pickup manufacturer states not to ride with the tailgate down, someone with a ford stated their manual had it as well.
I will put my parade truck up against your 1/2 ton of choice anyday, and I know I will come out on top each and every way. I like my parade truck, thanks! It's mint.
 
Originally Posted By: GMFan
Originally Posted By: Duffman77
Originally Posted By: Jaybird
Americans have the best work ethic on the planet. You are making statements based on your perception, and not reality, njcruiser.


Do you have any data to back up this claim or is it based on quick perceptions as well?


http://www.boston.com/news/world/europe/...ost_productive/


"They also get more done per hour than everyone but the Norwegians" = not the most productive, close I grant you though.
If you want to talk auto sector though, they are not the most productive on this continent. CAW workers were more productive than thier UAW counterparts a few years ago, I dont think that has changed.

http://www.uaw.org/barg/07fact/fact08.php

Considering the ratio of U.S. Plants to Canadian plants and the fact that certain models are not built in Canada 4/12 holds my statement up pretty well.
 
Hi

The Tundra appears to have a GVW of about 7200. Thats in the neighborhood of a light 3/4 ton.

FWIW, the Ford F150 can be spc'd to a 4300 FGAWR which translates into a 8200lb GVWR ??? Quite a beast. :)
 
All this talk about big trucks, but I wish Toyota would go back to making a small one. Like, the size of their pickups from the '80s. The Tacoma is not a small truck anymore.
 
Originally Posted By: Anduril
All this talk about big trucks, but I wish Toyota would go back to making a small one. Like, the size of their pickups from the '80s. The Tacoma is not a small truck anymore.


Same with most all new models today. Rememeber how small tghe civic used to be? My Dad's new GMC Colorado truck is bigger than the S10/Sonoma he replaced. I thought the old S truck was the right size for a small truck.
 
Quote:
My perception is reality, thanks. I see it everday at work, and with the products I buy.
Why didn't you say that you were only basing your opinion on your very limited exposure to the US workforce? Could it be that folks in your neck of the woods have a different work ethic than the rest of the nation, causing your skewed perception? I already know for a fact that this is the case in may parts of the country, as I have spent a lot of time in plants across the nation. I have seen identical sister plants in different parts of the country, that operate in totally different ways, due to the local workforces and their styles, if you will.

Someone should tell JD Powers, et al, that the Tundra is not in the class with the Super Duty, as they seem to pit them against one another in reports.
 
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Originally Posted By: Anduril
All this talk about big trucks, but I wish Toyota would go back to making a small one. Like, the size of their pickups from the '80s. The Tacoma is not a small truck anymore.


Same with most all new models today. Rememeber how small tghe civic used to be? My Dad's new GMC Colorado truck is bigger than the S10/Sonoma he replaced. I thought the old S truck was the right size for a small truck.


Yup. This is why Honda now has the Fit, and Toyota now has the Yaris. The previous small Civic and Corolla have now grown to the same size of the Accords and Camrys of 20 years ago. The trucks have bloated too, but so far, we're not seeing "new" small versions coming in to re-establish the small truck segment.
 
The sad thing about cars like the Fit and the Yaris. One doesn't see the fuel economy benefits from the smaller car.

I think the Civic actually gets better highway fuel economy compared to the Fit. The Fit may do better by 1 or 2 MPG in down, but does worse by about the same on the highway.

I'd go Civic over the Fit everyday given that.

Others may value the smaller size, easier to park nature of the Fit.

I think things are similar for the Yaris/Corolla comparison. I didn't look as closely at them at the local Auto Show, as they didn't even have a new Corolla on display. Seems they had everything but the new Corolla. They did have the 2009 Corolla Matrix, but not a plain Corolla.
 
Originally Posted By: Jaybird
Quote:
My perception is reality, thanks. I see it everday at work, and with the products I buy.
Why didn't you say that you were only basing your opinion on your very limited exposure to the US workforce? Could it be that folks in your neck of the woods have a different work ethic than the rest of the nation, causing your skewed perception? I already know for a fact that this is the case in may parts of the country, as I have spent a lot of time in plants across the nation. I have seen identical sister plants in different parts of the country, that operate in totally different ways, due to the local workforces and their styles, if you will.

Someone should tell JD Powers, et al, that the Tundra is not in the class with the Super Duty, as they seem to pit them against one another in reports.


I dont work in plants.........I am now a software engineer, and previously a hardware design engineer. I also live in one of the most advanced areas of the US, with the cost of living per county always being in the top 5 within the US every yeat. Dont know what you meant by my neck of the woods, so I'll just point it out.
I see the people I work with, the %'s of races, and the motivation within. I worked in a company of 80,000 people for 10yrs, traveling at times, and it was always the same. I can see who is lazy, and who is not. It doesnt apply to everyone, but it does to the majority. To me, at least it does.
ANyway, I am done debating, we are both entitled to our opinion.
 
Northern VA, which is a high cost of living area, has it's fair share of lazy people. Most work for the FedGov so it's a jobs program for the otherwise unemployable.
 
My mom retired from General Motors, and I can say from first and second hand experience that they were some of the laziest people I've ever seen and heard about. I've heard lots of stories about people not doing their visual jobs, letting blatant defects cross the line without any care, people messing up on parts and hiding them underneath the table (expensive parts from one of GM's German suppliers valued at thousands of dollars), union harassment & influence was almost a mob-like mentality, etc.

My mom has made the decision that her current car, a 2003 Malibu will be the last domestic product she buys. She's had non-stop problems with it, and sees me buying my $3000-4000 used imports and getting nothing but reliable service out of them, and feels that her money is better spent elsewhere. Keep in mind, this is coming from someone who worked for GM for over 20 years.
 
My mom has a 2004 Malibu Classic (2.2L Ecotec) and it's had exactly one problem (strut noise) for which a TSB was issued and was fixed under warranty. (That was after it was at another GM dealer who claimed the noise was because it needed new brakes. They couldn't have been bothered to go look up the TSB! And then lied about the condition of the brakes!)

About the closest thing to a "build issue" I've found with it is that one of the coolant hoses from the tank was cut slightly too long and was rubbing the hood liner. I just used a wire tie to hold it down so it won't rub.

Most issues I've had with any of the cars I've owned were engineering issues. Nothing was done or could be done on the assembly line to cause or correct the problem:

TFI-IV mounted on distributor and overheats
Too-small wire used between dimmer and headlight switch, as specified on wiring diagram
Plastic impeller in waterpump shears and breaks
Incorrect insulation used in underhood wiring harnesses
Ignition switch connector overheated

All engineering issues. As far as the assembly plant goes: Garbage in, garbage out.

I think that might apply to colleges and universities too.
 
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