Toyota trucks...for work or for parades?

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Originally Posted By: Jaybird
njcruiser,
Does your manual not advise to not run with the tailgate down?


I see the following. I will put it in bold so you know that is from the manual.. First, inside a square box:
NOTICE
Avoid driving with the tailgate open.

Then, in normal text later when talking about installing the tailgate.
We recommend you keep the tailgate closed when not in use.

That is all I can find so now you can beat me up with that info if you like!

I have owned toyota trucks for years. I purchased my first one at 16 yrs old brand new, and have not stopped yet at 33 yrs old. They all have done what I need them to do, never less. This one is no different. It does what I need which is:
1. Reliable now, good resale years later with tons of miles.
2. Picks up supplies for home projects from lowes, home depot, etc.
3. Moves me and the family around comfortably. It is bigger inside than our 08 4runner.
4. Hauls me, family, and friends to the hare scramble races easily with the bikes, usually 2, sometimes 3, and gear in the bed. Tailgate is open, ha.!
5. On the rare occasion I need to tow, I can do up to 10K easily and safely. This is not often.
6. Keeps us safe(well...........)Has all the saftey airbags standard, everywhere front and rear.
7. Gets decent mpg with incredible power. The engine and 6 speed transmission is pretty nice.

If anyone is looking for a 1/2 ton truck, then they would be foolish to not look at the tundra. Once again when it was time to buy in 07, I looked at all the options just as I always do. As usual, toyota won.
FOr those who say toyota can not build a heavy duty truck, they have no idea what they are talking about. Toyota has the land cruiser, which is one of the most over built and over engineered trucks ever produced. The tundra is pretty [censored] beefy for a 1/2 ton as well. I think some issues start when it is compared to a 3/4 or 1 ton truck. Not a fair comparison.
Yea, I am pro toyota, but that is based on my experience. I do not care what anyone purchases, and by no means am I pushing anyone towards a toyota.
I forgot, I left out something else I enjoy. THe look on the owners face of a "big 3" truck when they want to race me, and then they lose. It is priceless when I see that at the next light. No one ever wants to go twice, but they always want to go the first time. I guess they still live under a rock and think toyota does not have a serious engine yet?? My wife was VERY surprised how fast the [censored] thing is, it can be fun.
Now I want to go drive my truck.
Just turned 15K, no issues, 10 months old. Not that I would expect any in the low amount of miles though, just reporting.
Oil relation: I use 5w20 Penzoil platinum.
As my son calls it, and not because I drive fast in it, it is based on the little einsteins, I present silver rocket:
http://www.tundrasolutions.com/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/41658/ppuser/27915/sl/t
 
Originally Posted By: Jaybird
njcruiser,
Does your manual not advise to not run with the tailgate down?


It makes no difference whether they advise it or not. Not being able to use the a truck with the tailgate down is a big minus.
 
is that article even up to date?
more and more "US" brands are no longer built in the US, and are using more foreign parts then ever. toyota is one of the few investing inside the US, while others if building new plants, do so overseas where it is cheaper.
i will say my 07 built in the US is not the same as my 08 4runner built in japan, or any other of my toyotas buildt in japan. you can almost tell it was put together by lazy americans here in the US. I am american, dont get me wrong, but I dont think the average us citizen is as motivated as the average japanese citizen.
Our government has nothing to do with the issues the US car manufacturers face. It was and is the people who have been running the big 3 that put the maufacturers in their position.
 
Originally Posted By: njcruiser
Originally Posted By: Jaybird
njcruiser,
Does your manual not advise to not run with the tailgate down?



I forgot, I left out something else I enjoy. THe look on the owners face of a "big 3" truck when they want to race me, and then they lose. It is priceless when I see that at the next light. No one ever wants to go twice, but they always want to go the first time. I guess they still live under a rock and think toyota does not have a serious engine yet??



Funny, I've never been beaten by a new Tundra (or Titan) in my 06 GMC Sierra Denali crewcab. Of course it's got the 6.0L, that may help.
 
Americans have the best work ethic on the planet. You are making statements based on your perception, and not reality, njcruiser.

And your facts about the building of new auto plants is another of your perceptions, and not based on facts. Auto plants are being built all the time. Maybe not the structures that house them, but the tooling inside a plant is changed on a regular basis to accommodate new models and changes. Sometimes taking the plant to the concrete and starting fresh. This would differ from a new plant how?

The advise by Toyota to ride with the tailgate up is because they know it is a faulty component. But they are careful not to kill sales of their optional bed extenders.

OK, so the answer is, it's a parade (and apparently a ricer racer) truck and not a true work truck.
 
Originally Posted By: Camu Mahubah
I'm a Ford man myself but I somehow think these pictures are anti-toyota propaganda.



This is no [censored], its real. My F150s manual also says not to run with the tailgate down, and I have several time with no issues. That is a precaution, so you dont drive over bumps while empty and have your tailgate flop around and bust out your taillights like another Tundra owner in the forum I just posted a link to. I have owned several Toyotas as well, and loved the ones I owned with the last one being an 02 Tacoma Prerunner. It just seems that the new Tundras quality is severly lacking. I would not buy a truck whose tailgate becomes disfigured simply from loading a motorcycle, or golf cart into. The problem on these tailgate failures is crazppy welds onto the support. Toyota needs to tighten up, if they skimp on something as simple as welds, I hate to think what else is skimped on.
 
"tailgate down": may have nothing to do with its strength.

Driving w/ gate down was deemed a no-no some years ago due to SAFETY issues when the truck is rear-ended. Gates that came loose were lethal.

M
 
Maybe the problem is the frame? After watching those videos showing the frame flex and the way the bed danced all around on the road course I can see the weak frame. (See the video links early in this thread by another poster). Perhaps the tailgate being closed is an important part of the rigidity of the truck and with it down the flex is even more severe and the tailgate splits from the twisting? I don't know - just thinking out loud here.
 
Originally Posted By: benjamming
Originally Posted By: GMFan
Toyota may build their vehicles here but that is low wage.


What wage is that?


I didn't want to do this, but I will. I'm from the north (the union states). Manual labor and most manufacturing jobs involve the employees being in a union... Toyota builds factories in the south where there are no unions.

The government is digging this hole not the union or the car manufacturers.

The union wants job security for it's members, they want a promise their jobs won't be shuffled off to Mexico, and they want a decent wage.

That isn't much to ask for.

The problem lies with allowing foreign auto makers who have government health care, government retirement to sell their vehicles here, not only sell them here but help them to do it, and encouraging it.

It is increasingly impossible for US companies to compete in the world market because our government refuses to do something about our failing health and welfare policies.

It isn't that the workers want too much, it isn't that GM/Ford/ChryslerDodge wouldn't like to do the right thing. It is that we as Americans are failing to understand that every time we buy a tin can from Japan, we take food out of our own mouths.

Every time we concede to another health plan cut, pension cut, benefit cut, tax cut we are bleeding ourselves to death. It is a slow and painful death.

We do these things, then so many sit in judgment of those they kill, and bleed slowly.

These people are fighting for their jobs, fighting for their health insurance, fighting for the retirement packages. While foreign car makers have the benefit of not having to worry about those things because of their government subsidized benefits.

This an American nightmare, catastrophe, and will be our downfall in the world market.

As proud Americans fight for necessities of life (health insurance and retirement funds are necessary), and the corporations fight to be competitive, our government cuts and denies it's citizens the very benefits that make it easier for foreign car makers to flood our markets with cheap cars.

The mentality that fosters this idiotic way of doing things will be our downfall as a leader in the world market. We have been going down the tubes for many years, and in the past few we have been sliding faster.

But then no worries, we have all those great manufacturing jobs at McDonalds to turn to.

Once again, feel free to read this article.

http://www.howtobuyamerican.com/content/db/b-db-autos.shtml
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: GMFan
Originally Posted By: benjamming
Originally Posted By: GMFan
Toyota may build their vehicles here but that is low wage.


What wage is that?




I've read the article many times before and have it bookmarked at home along with many other buy in USA type links such as http://www.ibew.org/IBEW/products/index.asp etc.

But back to the question if you don't mind. So, what wage is that? $15/hr, $25/hr, $35/hr, etc. I would suspect around $25/hr but don't know for sure.

BTW, I paid ~ $75 for my last shovel to get a made in the USA product. Home Despot & Lowes has them for less than $20 but they are made in Mexico or China. Was the one I bought union made? I have no idea and it didn't matter. It was the only shovel that I could find that was made in the US. So, I very much understand how my purchases affect things. I follow through & put my money where my mouth is.
 
Originally Posted By: GMFan
Bed bounce

Frame Strength

The proof is in the pudding. Ford is king of trucks with GM close behind.
12.gif



They should have tested a Honda Ridgeline. With its stiff unibody-on-frame construction, I bet it would dominate that Bed Bounce comparison!
grin2.gif
 
But "usually" doesn't really mean much in a quantitative comparison.

If one considers the age of the labor force, the average $4.35/hour difference tells me that Toyota pays a higher wage, since it's average workforce probably has less time on the job compared to GM.

I believe wages for union workers has a seniority component, right?

The avg labor cost, if I understand it, is the cost per labor hour of wages, payroll taxes such as FICA and Medicare and benefits, including pension and health insurance.

Where GM is getting killed in this category is their obligations to retirees, which I believe are figured into this hourly figure.

GM's numbers are also driven up by paying folks who are not working, banked or protected workers count as paid labor.

Those decisions are NOT government decisions, but management decisions.

If the union wants to protect those jobs, let them pay the wages. It's silly to ask GM (or Ford or Chrysler) to pay laided off workers. But even more silly was the decision to say yes. Can't blame that one on the government or the union. GM had the power to say no, and didn't.

Originally Posted By: GMFan
$31.35 - GM $27 - Toyota. Not really accurate though because GM employees get union benefits which are usually much much better than non-union.
http://www.npr.org/news/specials/gmvstoyota/

GM's newest plant tour
http://www.podtech.net/home/3612/gms-lansing-delta-township-plant
 
It would appear that by the response here that this will turn out to be a market segment that Toyota should maybe have given up on? After their foray with the meager T-100 and the 7/8ths sized earlier Tundra, their research hasn't brought them much. In a few years it won't matter anyway as only farmers and real contractors will own pick-ups when the poop hits the prop ($6/gal gas).
 
Originally Posted By: benjamming
That would be fun to see but maybe not so fun to be in during the test.


I know it's a different type of truck designed for different things, but I think it would provide a much better ride in that test than the other trucks. With independent rear suspension, so it won't have all that unsprung weight bouncing around, and the bumps on one side won't affect the entire back of the truck the way it does with a solid axle. I'd be interested in seeing it.
 
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