Wholly khrap. No way.
Toyota - The recall KING?
- Thread starter buster
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Wholly khrap. No way.
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As far as sales experiences go, I had a great experience with the local Saab dealer. They even managed to get the paperwork for European Delivery done correctly
Sweet. I didn't have any trouble buying the GTO either.
Converting Australian Kangaroo dollars?
Although I would agree that the W123 OM616/617 MBs are extremely reliable but so is my Accord V6, I owned both and can tell you I had way less nagging electrical problems with the Honda than with the MB, the trims came off on my 84300D which was a garaged low mileage version, both are good cars in their own respect but I will give the Honda the edge in terms of mechanical reliability, just don't make the MB invincible in any regards at all.
JHZR2
Staff member
hmmm. could it be that the location where yours was (India, I assume) had something to do with it???
Ive heard of circuit boards in cruise control and climate control boxes going bad, but other than that, no real typical issues that Ive noted...
As for trim, unlike a honda or whatnot, the trim on a W123 is physically clipped to the metal, NOT glued down (though the wood trim on the dash is glued, though I assume this is not what you mean), so if it came off, obviaously there is an issue with heat/UV degrading the clips, or else someone damaging it.
My trim came off when the girl hit my car... Ive had some good looks at how it is in there, and its tight, unless something has happened to it or the materials of the clips are compromised.
Are you comparing apples to apples with your honda V6? Equipment-wise with the car, as well as everything else? No denying that that Honda makes a darn-good vehicle... but Id buy a 200k mile MB diesel with confidence, but not so much for a honda ga$ v6... or any other ga$ engine with 200k...
JMH
Ive heard of circuit boards in cruise control and climate control boxes going bad, but other than that, no real typical issues that Ive noted...
As for trim, unlike a honda or whatnot, the trim on a W123 is physically clipped to the metal, NOT glued down (though the wood trim on the dash is glued, though I assume this is not what you mean), so if it came off, obviaously there is an issue with heat/UV degrading the clips, or else someone damaging it.
My trim came off when the girl hit my car... Ive had some good looks at how it is in there, and its tight, unless something has happened to it or the materials of the clips are compromised.
Are you comparing apples to apples with your honda V6? Equipment-wise with the car, as well as everything else? No denying that that Honda makes a darn-good vehicle... but Id buy a 200k mile MB diesel with confidence, but not so much for a honda ga$ v6... or any other ga$ engine with 200k...
JMH
Meanwhile, at first toyota only offered warranty work for one year counting from the day of the announcement. Think about it. The announcement came out sometime in 2002 and the last model affected was also 2002, IIRC. Yes, they removed the one year limitation later on but if they were so responsible, why was it there on the first place? What did it mean to those cars of 2001 and 2002 model years?
On top of that, they never admitted it's their problem but they did say (in the same announcement that removed the 1 yeat limit) they sequently change the design of the engine and it would be perfect in future model, blah, blah. OK, if it's not their problem, why did they change the design? From what they said, I can only believe that they care more about your hard-earned money than anything else.
And yes, I am a toyota hater because I am a hater of every big company. As to those big monsters, nobody is better than anybody else. They are all big money stealers!
With all do respect to Buster who I suspect wished to start legititimate discussion this thread is full of generalizations and poorly formed opinions.
I smell fear in GM fans. It's a shame because the difference in corporate cultures is obviouss to the unbiased.
Nice to see that Toyota is enough of a threat to bash in force thouc=gh!
I smell fear in GM fans. It's a shame because the difference in corporate cultures is obviouss to the unbiased.
Nice to see that Toyota is enough of a threat to bash in force thouc=gh!
JHZR2,
Both Honda and MB in NYC, not in India, here I drive a Indian made G Wagen with OM616 turbo, its you who compared Honda to MB, as I said both are good cars in their own right, Honda has the edge, I have seen even poorly maintained Accord 4 cylinders outlasting others and I mean severely abused.
JHZR2
Staff member
Ummmm, the only comparisson that I made to Honda in my writing in this thread is the fact that they need to have their valves adjusted at one point or another as well... If you read it, I did not say this was an issue whatsoever, in fact, it is just a necessity of proper car ownership with any variety of makes/models, and it was only talking about the need for valve adjustment on a diesel engine.
I suppose you havent seen the typical puff of blue/grey smoke that comes from the garden variety honda engine at about 120k miles... There sure are a lot of posts in BITOG talking about it... THat doesnt mean that the engines won't be mechanically reliable for a LONG time after, but gee, engines shouldnt be consuming oil shortly after 100k miles, yet its common. I have personally noticed a higher incidence rate of Hondas and Mitsubishi cars burning oil, as compared to all other makes. Severely abused is relative, and, many a car will keep on running for a long time despite the abuse. That isnt a Honda trait, per se.
And if you want to talk about trim and what not... Our 94 Acura integra (this is supposed to be a high end honda product?), while it actually does NOT burn oil at 176k miles (!), has to have the cheapest materials selection of any of our cars... our 94 toyota has better paint, rubber trim and seat cloth after more miles, than the integra does. So, while I certainly wouldnt dispute that Honda does a lot of things really well, and creates a lot of long-lived cars, I would not equate this in any way to them being superior whatsoever in their design or operational longevity, as compared to a large variety of other makes/models.
JMH
I suppose you havent seen the typical puff of blue/grey smoke that comes from the garden variety honda engine at about 120k miles... There sure are a lot of posts in BITOG talking about it... THat doesnt mean that the engines won't be mechanically reliable for a LONG time after, but gee, engines shouldnt be consuming oil shortly after 100k miles, yet its common. I have personally noticed a higher incidence rate of Hondas and Mitsubishi cars burning oil, as compared to all other makes. Severely abused is relative, and, many a car will keep on running for a long time despite the abuse. That isnt a Honda trait, per se.
And if you want to talk about trim and what not... Our 94 Acura integra (this is supposed to be a high end honda product?), while it actually does NOT burn oil at 176k miles (!), has to have the cheapest materials selection of any of our cars... our 94 toyota has better paint, rubber trim and seat cloth after more miles, than the integra does. So, while I certainly wouldnt dispute that Honda does a lot of things really well, and creates a lot of long-lived cars, I would not equate this in any way to them being superior whatsoever in their design or operational longevity, as compared to a large variety of other makes/models.
JMH
I've rarely seen that, when I do I *NEVER* see the vehicle again. Visible smoke is an instant failure on the emissions tests here, there is no waiver, and you cannot register the car(unless it's repaired).. Anecdotally I've heard that means you cannot register it anywhere in Virginia--even where there aren't any emissions tests.
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They get up to 135MPH pretty quickly
JHZR2
Staff member
man, I wish I could take mine up to 135...
I wonder how the fuel economy is up there?
JMH
I wonder how the fuel economy is up there?
JMH
I've been reading this post and sitting by. I have to admit Toyotas DO seem to hold their value very well. First off, I own a Ford van, a Chevy Trailblazer and Toyota Camry. Sadly enough I have to admit there is no way in **** I could sell my not quite 2 year old Chevy for 4,500 less than I paid for it. Early this year I was looking for a car for my teenager daughter. 10 year old Toyota were selling for as much as 3-4 year old Ford and Chevys of similar size and class.
I agree also, when it's possible it's a very good idea to pay cash for your vehicles. We paid cash for my wife's Camry - saved a bundle on finance charges! We were fortunate to have the money at that time, I realize not everyone can do that.
My 2 cents is - every car maker has had their lemons. Everyone! I love my Chevy Trailblazer, but I'll admit the interior quality is not the best in the world.
Lastly, I think it's funny that people are debating who is better (or worse) GM or Toyota - "American made" or "Japanese made" when all the major "American" car companies are pretty much "in bed" with Japanese car makers. GM has at least 2 models in recent years that were essentially Toyotas (probably more - just what I can think of at this minute) Ford had the Mercury Villager which is the same as the Nissan Quest, etc. In light of recent merger talks, the old saying "If you can't beat them, join them" comes to mind!
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They get up to 135MPH pretty quickly
Yeah, but my two-wheelers get there even quicker
Sometimes, only on one wheel
Scott
Well, the DTE display on the SID went from 300 miles to 250 miles after about 30 seconds at 135.
It unfortunately doesn't display instantaneous fuel economy so I couldn't say how many miles per gallon it gets at that speed.
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Yeah, but my two-wheelers get there even quicker
Sometimes, only on one wheel
Yeah, but the drivers around here are scary enough in a 4-wheeler.
Would NOT want to deal with them on a 2-wheeler!
JHZR2
Staff member
Thats a good point, and why it is not worth it to buy a used toyota or Honda. Its simply not a good deal, if youre buying and keeping a car long-term, which is the smart money decision.
I agree that cash buying should be the way that cars should be purchased (I suppose if you can get 0.0% for n years, thats a decent deal). If you cant afford it, cash, downgrade or get less options!
JMH
I paid cash for all but $10k of the Saab 93, and that is on a 3.5 year loan which I intend to pay off early, likely within 2 years.
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Yeah, but my two-wheelers get there even quicker
Sometimes, only on one wheel
Yeah, but the drivers around here are scary enough in a 4-wheeler.
Would NOT want to deal with them on a 2-wheeler!
Which is why I stopped commuting about a year ago...too many idiot soccer moms in their SUVs talking on the phone.
I've been a Toyota fan ever since I got my license. I had two Corolla's and put 300,000 on one, 180,000 on the other. ZERO problems. The 1987 went to my cousin. I had put on 200,000 miles, while my cousin put the last 100k on it. The car burned oil and my cousin forgot to put oil in it which seized the engine.
A lot of people are keeping an eye out on Toyota. They are growing rapidly. I always have respected Toyota's dedication towards quality. I hope they can maintain it.
A lot of people are keeping an eye out on Toyota. They are growing rapidly. I always have respected Toyota's dedication towards quality. I hope they can maintain it.
JHZR2
Staff member
I'm glad that your corollas have been good. My father's was lousy, and a number of friends have newer ones that havent been much better.
Now our previa on the other hand... 12 years and 202k, and youd think the thing was new off the lot... seriously.
Toyota can make a good product, for sure.
JMH
Now our previa on the other hand... 12 years and 202k, and youd think the thing was new off the lot... seriously.
Toyota can make a good product, for sure.
JMH
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