Toyota may not know for sure what is wrong

[Nick R]

Originally Posted By: oliveoil
I think it's a software issue. To many electronics.



The problem is Toyota's poorly written, and implemented code. There is no fail safe in the design. If it "crashes", it goes to wide open throttle. GM and Ford setups automatically default to throttle closed. Toyota has been critisized in the past for its poor programming.



Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
what was wrong with a cable pulling on a throttle??
Nothing, Nothing at all i guess it is cheaper to use electronics..


Not really cheaper directly, but indirectly it is cheaper and more efficient. When all you have connected to the throttle pedal is a rheostat, or similar, it allows many things to be implemented cheaper and easier. Cruise control for example, on a cable controlled throttle car, requires a computer, and a vacuum system and another cable, to control. With TBW, it is simply a matter of the computer telling the motor at the throttle body what to do. It also allows for more efficient communication between the pedal and the transmission. Throttle by wire has a lot of benefits, when done properly. And Toyota just screwed it up. Simple as that. Much the same way Ford screwed up when it designed the cruise control chips in some of it's cars to be supplied with power all times, and located it right next/above the brake booster/master cylinder.

 

[BearZDefect]

Some get it right, some don't. Some bad implementations are a nuisance, some are a disaster.

The electronic throttle on my wife's 2009 Sonata is awful.

I doubt Toyota has screwed up more than other auto makers, but they have had this problem for years now:

Quote:
Toyota is an arrogant company that has grown complacent with success. When Toyoda took over last summer, he pointed out that the greatest challenge facing him was "big company disease".


Akio Toyoda, CEO of Toyota.

Source:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8508531.stm

 

[Cutehumor]

Originally Posted By: crazyoildude

I was driving with my neighbor and she kept changing lanes and she said she did not want a Toyota behind us, some people over react


she needs to grow a set...

 

[brianl703]

Originally Posted By: rudolphna
Much the same way Ford screwed up when it designed the cruise control chips in some of it's cars to be supplied with power all times


It would've worked fine if they had made it switched power or put it on a much smaller fuse (which is in fact what the repair harness does, it puts a 3-amp fuse in that circuit. Otherwise, the circuit is fused for 20 or 15 amps). There's actually another (switched) circuit for powering the cruise control--the constant circuit is only a low-amperage brake sense input.

 

[Durango]

How could they (Toyota) issue new parts for a pedal repair and in reality can't be sure it's the right fix???? Sound like more of Toyotas twisting of words to get around an issue again. With the news of the Corolla's AND Camry's having bad issues too I wonder if the whole line might be defective in some way.

I wonder if they;'re getting ready to issue a recall on the Tacoma's too? They may as well. If I had a Toyota I'd be confused and willing to get rid of mine pretty fast.

Again the entire board AND the CEO (North America) needs to step down!. The cover-up is blown.

 

[demarpaint]

I said in one of these threads IIRC that I had a feeling Toyota isn't going to nail the problem in the first attempt. I think the people who are first ones to have the recall work done will be paying them a return visit. Now it seems their newer Camry's, another one of their cars might have steering issues. They're batting a thousand.

 

[Kestas]

Sometimes I wonder if Toyota is playing "let's see if this shuts them up" with the public to see what they can get away with. I have a feeling they know that their fix will be costly. It'll have to be thoroughly tested as well. Imagine if they still have more people get hurt or die from cars that have been 'fixed' during the recall campaign. That would be the straw that broke the camel's back.

 

[454chevy]

I don't think it makes any difference at this point...there are a lot of folks who don't like foreign cars and now this is their chance to make mincemeat out of the big bully on the block. So they are swinging away.

 

[Durango]

What they did was hid the truth from the public instead of coming forward first to repair what's wrong. It appears they have corporate documents that they knew in advance of all the problems in each of the cars/trucks they manufacture BUT did nothing.

If they were smart they should have come forward in the first place. The pain would have been less in the end. I admit no one car is perfect by any stretch but if corporate execs hide the truth to gain more profit it's not the cars fault. The execs/VP will get a grilling when they meet with the FEDS. When the smoke clears Toyota is gonna hurt for a very long time.

Durango

 

[rszappa1]

The Feds...GM and Chrysler....

 

[ifly2high]

Originally Posted By: jmsjags
Originally Posted By: John_K
Exactly. What was wrong with a cable pulling on a throttle? Does everything have to be computerized?

John


EPS helps with fuel economy and gives engineers the ability to program steering feel. the technology's still fairly new so of course there are gonna be some glitches, but it'll be good in the long run


Better fuel economy? HA! Let me sell you ocean front property in Nevada.

 

[Jonny Z]

Originally Posted By: rudolphna


The problem is Toyota's poorly written, and implemented code. There is no fail safe in the design. If it "crashes", it goes to wide open throttle. GM and Ford setups automatically default to throttle closed. Toyota has been critisized in the past for its poor programming.



Could you provide citations for the above statements because they sound more like factual statements rather than opinions.

http://www.camrystuff.com/manuals/Gen5/2AZ-FE.pdf

Scroll down to the last page for the fail safe mode, for at least one model year implementation of ETC (this was the very first generation).

Finally please share with us that which expert entity, has critisized [sic] Toyota's programming practice.

I am not trying to put you on the spot. Unsubstantiated "internet facts" fuel rumors.

My personal opinion of Toyota and Honda, is that they are way over-hyped. I credit the fan boys for reciting unsubstantiated stories of how reliable they are, and how bad the GMs are, as facts.

This is no different.

Let's stick to the facts because of speculations are just that, speculations.

 

[SteveSRT8]

there is no question that Toyota's programming is deficient.

They lack the feature that automatically closes the throttle when the brakes are applied. That's a biggie that almost everyone else has! Pure oversight on their part. Big boo boo.

And for anyone that understands how cars work, the ETC is a big advancement, and was absolutely necessitated by stability controls.
It can and does improve fuel economy, among many other benefits.

 

[moving2]

Originally Posted By: Jonny Z
Originally Posted By: rudolphna


The problem is Toyota's poorly written, and implemented code. There is no fail safe in the design. If it "crashes", it goes to wide open throttle. GM and Ford setups automatically default to throttle closed. Toyota has been critisized in the past for its poor programming.



Could you provide citations for the above statements because they sound more like factual statements rather than opinions.


+1