Toyota (Finally) Unveils Big EV Plans

JeffKeryk said:
How many states is the Murai sold in? How profitable is it? How many fueling stations are there?
No doubt Toyota is an amazing car company. The make the best hybrids; they have sold like hotcakes in CA.
Heck, I have owned 2.

They have built zero pure EVs. They have deep pockets, for sure. But those deep pockets will need to be distributed between ICE and EV.
It is not as simple as you make it out to be. Ask the mighty Porsche Audi and GM.
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It doesn't matter where the Mirai is being sold, how many they are selling, or even if it is profitable. It is more of a illustration (advertisement if you will) showing-off their advanced technology to the world. It is the simple fact that they developed it, are manufacturing it, selling it, and it is a viable usable product that is amazing. If the hydrogen infrastructure ever becomes widespread and workable, Toyota is already there with products that can take advantage of it. In the mean time, Toyota has EV architecture already developed, in production, and ready to go. All they need to do is replace the fuel cell with batteries.
Toyota doesn't need to distribute their monetary resources between ICE and EV as long as they are selling ICE vehicles profitably, which I predict they will continue to do for the foreseeable future. I for one will never purchase a battery EV as long as Hybrids are available. As you can see from their announcement, Toyota IS going to be manufacturing and selling battery EVs.
The other "mighty" manufacturers are scared to death of the 800lb gorilla that is Toyota. They are largely responsible for the big three US auto manufacturer's near total abandonment of car production in North America. Toyota is still manufacturing and selling them, profitably.
 
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wag123 said:
Toyota is far ahead of everyone else. For example, they are manufacturing and selling the only production hydrogen fuel cell powered EV in the world, and it is now on it's second generation.
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Might be a reason why there is no competition in this segment.
 
I'm not really sure an electric car is right for me at this point but I will say that due to how reliable Toyota hybrids have turned out to be they would definitely be at the top of my list in terms of who I'd feel comfortable buying a BEV from.
 
I'll buy one as long as it isn't butt ugly, tiny, or a CUV.

Edit: And if it isn’t stupidly expensive.
 
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Toyota knocked it out of the park with superior hybrid drivetrains. Everyone else pales in comparison for years to their offerings.

I don’t see why Toyota cannot engineer an electric vehicle that is highly competitive or top tier for general market.
 
I looked over a new Mirai that was parked, by the owner, beautiful luxury sedan imo. They were giving $15,000 credit for fuel. Fuel is very expensive. The military is working on fuel cell vehicles with GM Defense.
Other than that I am happy to have lived my life in these and previous days, and won’t be around to see the brave new world of 2040-50. Probably not even to that. Maybe they will have battery-less cars that get current from the road. Maybe people will be hunting other people with sharpened sticks to take away their food or worse. Who knows.
 
JeffKeryk said:
How many states is the Murai sold in? How profitable is it? How many fueling stations are there?
No doubt Toyota is an amazing car company. The make the best hybrids; they have sold like hotcakes in CA.
Heck, I have purchased 4 myself.

They have built zero pure EVs. They have deep pockets, for sure. But those deep pockets will need to be distributed between ICE and EV.
It is not as simple as some make it out to be. Ask the mighty Porsche Audi and GM.

"Wait for the big boys to get in."
Don't get me wrong, you make good points and I wish Toyota well. Personally, I believe they are the biggest threat to Tesla.
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Hydrogen fuel cell won't be prime time, unless we have nuclear reactor based hydrogen production (not nuclear to electric to hydrogen), which is probably at least 20 years out.

Porsche / Audi and GM are doing ok if they will stay the course to develop stuff, like Toyota stay the course building hybrid. However these 2 companies have bigger fish to catch (sports car, pick up / SUV) so they just want to make money and pay their CEOs and shareholders for now. If one day they are desperate they will eventually come out with something, like the way they finally improve their reliability when Toyota eat their lunch with Corolla and Camry reliability. The bigger problem is these 2 companies lack visions and they will never be #1, in EV, hybrid, passenger cars, etc, as long as the profit margin is low.
 
fisher83 said:
I'm not really sure an electric car is right for me at this point but I will say that due to how reliable Toyota hybrids have turned out to be they would definitely be at the top of my list in terms of who I'd feel comfortable buying a BEV from.
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They always wait 10 years after someone else came out with lemons so they can beat them with a white refrigerator.
 
madRiver said:
Toyota knocked it out of the park with superior hybrid drivetrains. Everyone else pales in comparison for years to their offerings.

I don’t see why Toyota cannot engineer an electric vehicle that is highly competitive or top tier for general market.
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Hybrid is basically an EV with a smaller battery, an engine, and a transmission taking power from both sides. If BYD, NIO, etc can build EVs and sell them in China, I'm sure Toyota can as well. Now whether they can do so with "Toyota Reliability" is another story, but I'm sure they will be more reliable than Tesla.
 
madRiver said:
Toyota knocked it out of the park with superior hybrid drivetrains. Everyone else pales in comparison for years to their offerings.

I don’t see why Toyota cannot engineer an electric vehicle that is highly competitive or top tier for general market.
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Their hybrid platforms are perfect for most American drivers who need range without worry.

As for EVs they just came out with the BZ4X and the Subaru Solterra. (Same thing).
 
Nick1994 said:
I'll buy one as long as it isn't butt ugly, tiny, or a CUV.

Edit: And if it isn’t stupidly expensive.
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None of the cars I saw pass that test. Toyota needs to go and find their designers from the early 90s that created cars like the twin turbo I6 Supra. Then ally new CFD and design tools and develop attractive, aerodynamic and efficient vehicles that don’t have all sorts of weird, abrupt lines, “retro” blocky lines, etc.
 
JHZR2 said:
None of the cars I saw pass that test. Toyota needs to go and find their designers from the early 90s that created cars like the twin turbo I6 Supra. Then ally new CFD and design tools and develop attractive, aerodynamic and efficient vehicles that don’t have all sorts of weird, abrupt lines, “retro” blocky lines, etc.
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And remind car makers that not everyone is 5'5" and weighs 130 pounds.
 
Nick1994 said:
And remind car makers that not everyone is 5'5" and weighs 130 pounds.
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Very true. When I was looking at the HAH, I couldn’t buy the one with a sunroof because there wasn’t enough headroom. I also couldn’t fit in my MIL’s Camry with sunroof because of the lack of headroom. And I’m only 6’4.
 
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